Okay, It is very convenient that whenever somebody disagrees with your views on a tuning company that they simply have not "searched" enough. I mentioned before that I have indeed searched. If I were in your shoes and I wanted to discredit the person I am debating with, I would simply link a thread showing how amazing HPFP upgrade is.
IF we are talking FACTS where did you find that APR's success rate on their products is worse than 2%?
All I'm asking is legitimate questions about their manufacturing process, equipment and facilities and you've yet to come up with something other than I haven't "searched" for it and I have. IF it's so simple to find, link me a photo of their facilities, staff and equipment.
Regarding a 2% fail rate, that's still terrible. Without giving away too much about myself I'm qualified to speak about manufacturing performance parts and mechanical engineering. The larger plants run something called Six Sigma quality control. It's a method developed by motorola in the 80's that is used to ensure quality control. When a local plant Lear Corporation (now outsourced) was developing remote keyless entry and other car parts the entire plant was ran under Six Sigma philosophy.
If a plant making simple keyless remotes and other simple electrical parts for car manufactures are producing equipment at that level, a company producing HPFP that are engine critical should damn well be better than a 2% failure rate. I don't need to "search" for this data, I'm not "ignorant" I am absolutely sure about all of this data.
APR has the equipment, the facility and employees to produce HPFP at the proper level of quality. Now who is HPFP upgrade? I did search, stop trying to throw around my "ignorance" and link me a photo of HPFP upgrade's facilities, employees and equipment and their quality control methods. All I can find is a shipping address and that their products "work" and they "improve upon other companies HPFPs" and yadda yadda. I will gladly admit that I'm wrong if you can prove what you are saying, all I'm seeing is an E-Bully using diversion tactics by claiming I'm "ignorant" and haven't "searched". Please explain why you are qualified to tell me how 2% failure rate is excellent?
I didn't really care until you decided to tell me I haven't "searched" and that I'm ignorant on manufacturing processes and the excellent quality control that 2% is. Give me a break and prove me wrong.
EDIT: HPFP upgrade website claims that 2% failure rate is unacceptable and that they strive to perform better than that... It says nothing about improperly installed HPFP's and unhappy customers but merely that their product doesn't fail 2% of the time. You misinterpreted it when you tried to reexplain the concept incorrectly to me.
Regarding this kind of debate on the forum, I am not trying to start a flame fest. I'm attempting to provide manufacturing data and product comparisons between competitors. My hope that this sort of debate is healthy for the forum and that these posts are not infringing on any forum rules.
EDIT: Want to put this first because I feel it's important:
I do apologize if you took offense to my comments, that wasn't my intention. :smile: I try to share my experiences as much as I can because I had the privilege of working with these companies and I feel like the consumer needs to know the companies as well as the people running those companies a bit more :thumbsup:
/Edit
First things first, I don't care enough about this topic ("debate"?) to continue talking about it. I as well as you have more important things than to convince each other of ours views. I only try to speak from experience from dealing with APR, Unitronic, and Eurodyne as well as the customers of the AUDI & VW MK4,MK5, and MK6 community. After really getting feedback from customers several times after flashing their ECU to installing hardware, I've realized that there are many customers with issues unrelated to the software/hardware who blame the product. This is a perfect example:
Sometimes people think the tune is trash when really somthing else is the issue me my self included then i found a boost leak and a bad maf and i like my apr tune again
Your 2% of key remotes is not the same scenario as the variables are extremely different. Keyless remotes have very few variables to take into consideration compared to a car not running properly. I'm not saying remotes are simple, but compared to this stuff...they are. Gaskets, diverter valves, WMI nozzle placement, boost leaks, intakes, n75, etc. All those can have an effect on the car running properly, especially when tuned. I've seen customers blame every tuner company and USUALLY the tuner company is not at fault. Some companies don't like to treat their dealers right, not to mention their customers. APR is TOP quality service and excellent products, but I've still seen customers skipping calling apr or coming back to the dealer when they have problems. Instead, they start a thread or toss a post about how this software isn't that great or it's slower than a car they theoretically should be able to compete with. There are way too many scenarios as you can imagine which the company is not at fault, but they're forced to issue a refund or worse, be blamed before having the opportunity to examine the situation.
Half my job was pretty much flashing APR, Unitronic, Eurodyne and being on the phone with them 24/7 about hardware, software, etc. Diagnosing customer's cars was definitely a big part of that as well as dealing with customers' POV. I try to speak from experience and not BSing, but when I'm talking to these companies at events and they're being a bit more open to us than the usual customer, you start putting the bigger picture together. When MK6s came out, focus began to slowly shift from MK5. It's the most subtle shift, but compare now and then...it's day and night. What's happened as well though is the development area has began to expand to much more expensive cars. What puts this all together is the pricing. From software to hardware, the pricing sheets are RIDICULOUS! You have no idea how much a dealer profits from an exhaust system to a tune on some of these cars, not to mention the company themselves. These new labor fees for removing ecu's, too good.
I haven't seen pics of the facility, but I can tell you that is not truly what matters (not saying it doesn't at all, but it's $$$). As well as staff, I haven't searched myself. Truth is, I doubt many people here can name 5 people from APR's staff without searching. A lot of this stuff is small in my eyes compared to customer service, quality & reliability of the product, competitive pricing. Customer service, no matter who works for them, they seem to have from the quick responses to customer in need of assistance. I've seen them give refunds quickly with only a few questions to those in need of one. The product reliability seems to be relatively good quality for now, not excellent but relatively good. It lacks a massive customer base and better testing than APR's pump, which more importantly leads to reliability. The pricing is definitely there, so for the most part, that's what you take into consideration.
My laptop is dying :frown:
