HPFP kit vs. APR HPFP

[mark920]

thats true, but it also comes down to how secure you are with your mechanical skills as well.

i do know that the seals that HPFP install have been said to be better then APR's. Again it does come down to price. I would still go with the new pump from HPFPupgrade for the reason it comes with a new fuel rail check valve

The rebuild kit with a new check valve is nice, but once again I have no way to test it, having the pump tested affords me piece of mind regardless of how well I think I rebuilt my pump. If for some reason my rebuilt pump was leaking I would not know and for the same price I prefer the piece of mind. However, if the apr sale was not going on at the time I would have more seriously considered the hpfpupgrade rebuild kit... As far as the genx seal, I do understand that it is supposed to be better than any other seal, but I have not actually seen any empirical evidence to show this...

 

[initialGTI]

You cant go wrong with HPFPupgrade. The seals is something I look at when compared to other brands.

 

[MKV727]

Guidence and preference are 2 different things. I read through what you had to say and your view is very narrow, and unwarrented. Especially coming from a guy that has 74 posts...and you only joined since april. Your opinion I would only take with a grain of sand. Do some research before you speak. Everyones opinions are welcome, but don't go and say that a company is not trust worthy when you dont know anything about them.

HPFPupgrade has a long history with our type of fuel pumps through the mazda community. As for the CF, VW makes more money on us replacing the CF then engineering a new one that would warrent less replacements. Instead they warrenty our CF up to 120k miles cause they know they will fail. HPFPUpgrades cf has gone through a lot of R&D, and they are not rushing to put these out. They are doing their homework and developing a sounds product.

APR does have the track history with their products, but as mentioned they are over priced. I run APR software and have had no issues, but that doesn't mean I have not looked into other options as well.

As for HPFP's standards for rebuilds..well that just goes to show they care about quality and results, not just taking our money and saying good luck.

By no means I am trying to push one more than the other, but if your going to offer your opinion base it off of facts, not fiction.

OP when all is said and done it comes down to what your willing to spend.

APR is a strong brand no doubt about it, but their customer service is hit or miss, not to mention that their software installs can be a major headache at times.
HPFPUgrade is also a solid brand, but new to our community. Their Cust service is second to non and that is important.

Both pumps are a good choice, but it has been shown that HPFPupgrades pump flows more than APRs.

I don't want this to turn into a pissing contest so I'll make my statement concise and brief.

Was anything I said before not true? What does my join date have to do with this? The things I'm saying are after speaking to owners of both of the respective pumps and the companies themselves. To say the least I have a fair amount of knowledge in mechanical engineering...

I'll make a quick checklist...

Who in the heck is HPFP upgrade? Who is their "staff"? What real R&D have they done? Where is their facilities located? What testing do they do to these HPFP's to insure success? What equipment do they use and who operates them? Frankly it sounds like somebody out of their garage with a website, if not prove me wrong. I feel like the forum and potential buyers deserve to know so if you have some kind of insider knowledge let us know.

I could answer all of those above questions for APR. The fact that VW sought out APR for both intercooler & HPFP improvements speaks volumes to me. Not to mention VW gave them access to things that other tuning companies never had giving them a heads up on competition. VW has worked ONLY with Hitachi and APR for HPFP's.

So after everything I mentioned above is this really a comparison? The only thing that could be debated is price and considering I have a loan out on this car I'll pay more for the piece of mind.

Also about the cam follower your logic makes no sense... If APR or VW offered a bulletproof fix for it I'd pay up to 4X the price... There'd be plenty of money involved. You seriously think they're making money with all those catastrophic failures covered under the 120k warranty? Seriously...

 

[Alik4041]

Who in the heck is HPFP upgrade? Who is their "staff"? What real R&D have they done? Where is their facilities located? What testing do they do to these HPFP's to insure success? What equipment do they use and who operates them? Frankly it sounds like somebody out of their garage with a website, if not prove me wrong. I feel like the forum and potential buyers deserve to know so if you have some kind of insider knowledge let us know.

It's not our job to better inform you. It's your job to search and find more about this company to help rid your ignorance. HPFP upgrade has been around since 2007 and they've been very open about their testing, procedures, etc. We're not here to take care of you, but you'll be called out when you treat a company that is commonly known on this forum as non-established. If you want to know more then search, otherwise you can continue being foolish with your limited knowledge.

 

[MKV727]

It's not our job to better inform you. It's your job to search and find more about this company to help rid your ignorance. HPFP upgrade has been around since 2007 and they've been very open about their testing, procedures, etc. We're not here to take care of you, but you'll be called out when you treat a company that is commonly known on this forum as non-established. If you want to know more then search, otherwise you can continue being foolish with your limited knowledge.

I've searched.... I wanted to check every avenue before spending close to a thousand dollars. I won't say I've read everything the HPFP vendor posted or every thread referencing HPFP upgrade but I've checked a large amount of it.

HPFP's website lists a shipping address... That is all the hard facts listed. They also state they manufacture parts with a fail rate less than 2% and frankly if you aim to beat 2% that's terrible.

None of the questions I asked in my earlier posts were answered.

Again, I have nothing against HPFP upgrade. I've never purchased their parts because of all the issues I listed. if you want to link me data that refutes everything I listed please do.

 

[Alik4041]

I've searched.... I wanted to check every avenue before spending close to a thousand dollars. I won't say I've read everything the HPFP vendor posted or every thread referencing HPFP upgrade but I've checked a large amount of it.

The information is there...I don't know what to tell you. Google hpfpupgrade and you'll start seeing more on different forums such as Mazda.

HPFP's website lists a shipping address... That is all the hard facts listed. They also state they manufacture parts with a fail rate less than 2% and frankly if you aim to beat 2% that's terrible.

I will admit their website isn't the best, but they only sell fueling options. A nice website isn't easy, there's a lot of work that goes into it obviously. Moving on to your 2% comment, you clearly have no idea how automotive E-commerce works. That's 2 out of 100 people not being satisfied with their product. When you take into account the people who blame a product because of poor user installation or a problem located somewhere else in the car, you begin to understand that this is a very high standard. APR have a great amount of people that blame the software when in reality, the user failed to prepare his car properly for the tune by installing a product that tampers with the software or the dealer is at fault for flashing a wrong file, etc. There will always be people that dislike your product, you just have to please the majority. APR's solution is to go for reliability which pleases the majority. Some want more power that goes beyond these parameters and opt for something else. That's simply a start to where APR has a GREATER than 2% dissatisfaction rate. So much more goes into that "2%". It's actually an amazing accomplishment in itself and look how successful APR is.

None of the questions I asked in my earlier posts were answered.

Sorry, not gonna help you read. Maybe someone else is willing to hold your hand so you can read threads

Again, I have nothing against HPFP upgrade. I've never purchased their parts because of all the issues I listed. if you want to link me data that refutes everything I listed please do.

You haven't posted a single issue...what are your "facts"? I've been in and out of this world of VAG cars, behind the scenes, etc. and I can tell you that everything is being done legitimately by hpfpupgrade. From their business tactics to testing to customer support...it's all there. The only thing they don't have is a history from pre-2007. You don't force products out of thin air, that only lasts a few years and your name becomes mud. They're slowly working on their products and making everyone aware of what they're doing. All this is being done while at the same time trying to keep some information from the competition.

If you think APR or someone else hasn't considered doing this, you're very wrong. Autotech had their hardened cam follower, h2sport has their fix, and now hpfpupgrade is working on something of their own. APR relied on the oem product and left it that way even though they knew they could make something better. There are a couple things to this though. First is you have to have something that sells AND profits. Those two are not the same. This was the idea let's say prior to the past 3 years. Hopefully you can understand that APR is focused on products that have a higher profit such as flashes, exhaust systems, intakes, etc. for cars that are worth at least twice our cars. Trust me when I tell you that people with those cars know what they're buying. They want two things. A reliable performance part AND a professional business to deal with for their nice automobile. The room for profit is staggering! Hence APR has found their pot of gold for a good while now and isn't looking to making many more 2.0T FSI parts.

But I digress...anyways...you have some threads to read.

/your_ignorance

 

[enjoyincubus365]

Post count and join date mean very, VERY little. I have a great resource in one of my friends who has built race cars to mini vans. He has owned a successful garage for over 20 years. So if he joined and made one post he's somehow less knowledgeable than a join date '06 14,875,689 count guy?

Back on topic. I have the APR pump, just bought it on sale and installed it mid April. Absolutely love it and the tune. That being said I was of the mind to not gamble on such a vital and core component. If this were interior trim, or T20 screws, who cares, but this is a fuel pump. I'm not saying HPFP.com is bad, I'm saying I came to the conclusion that HPFP from APR was better. Also, lifetime warranty. {you're experience may differ}

 

[enjoyincubus365]

The information is there...I don't know what to tell you. Google hpfpupgrade and you'll start seeing more on different forums such as Mazda.



I will admit their website isn't the best, but they only sell fueling options. A nice website isn't easy, there's a lot of work that goes into it obviously. Moving on to your 2% comment, you clearly have no idea how automotive E-commerce works. That's 2 out of 100 people not being satisfied with their product. When you take into account the people who blame a product because of poor user installation or a problem located somewhere else in the car, you begin to understand that this is a very high standard. APR have a great amount of people that blame the software when in reality, the user failed to prepare his car properly for the tune by installing a product that tampers with the software or the dealer is at fault for flashing a wrong file, etc. There will always be people that dislike your product, you just have to please the majority. APR's solution is to go for reliability which pleases the majority. Some want more power that goes beyond these parameters and opt for something else. That's simply a start to where APR has a GREATER than 2% dissatisfaction rate. So much more goes into that "2%". It's actually an amazing accomplishment in itself and look how successful APR is.


Sorry, not gonna help you read. Maybe someone else is willing to hold your hand so you can read threads


You haven't posted a single issue...what are your "facts"? I've been in and out of this world of VAG cars, behind the scenes, etc. and I can tell you that everything is being done legitimately by hpfpupgrade. From their business tactics to testing to customer support...it's all there. The only thing they don't have is a history from pre-2007. You don't force products out of thin air, that only lasts a few years and your name becomes mud. They're slowly working on their products and making everyone aware of what they're doing. All this is being done while at the same time trying to keep some information from the competition.

If you think APR or someone else hasn't considered doing this, you're very wrong. Autotech had their hardened cam follower, h2sport has their fix, and now hpfpupgrade is working on something of their own. APR relied on the oem product and left it that way even though they knew they could make something better. There are a couple things to this though. First is you have to have something that sells AND profits. Those two are not the same. This was the idea let's say prior to the past 3 years. Hopefully you can understand that APR is focused on products that have a higher profit such as flashes, exhaust systems, intakes, etc. for cars that are worth at least twice our cars. Trust me when I tell you that people with those cars know what they're buying. They want two things. A reliable performance part AND a professional business to deal with for their nice automobile. The room for profit is staggering! Hence APR has found their pot of gold for a good while now and isn't looking to making many more 2.0T FSI parts.

But I digress...anyways...you have some threads to read.

/your_ignorance

You're putting a lot of words in APR's(and others) mouth I feel, lots of speculation. How about some facts? Or personal opinion experience?

 

[Alik4041]

It's mostly personal experience with a bit of facts about some actions by apr and others that can help paint the bigger picture. Also when you're talking to the heads of these companies and they explain to you their perspective on the MK5 community or the competition, you start to get a feel for what they're after. I'll get to it tomorrow when it's not almost 4am. I have a presentation to give tomorrow morning :/

 

[CW08DSG]

Post count and join date mean very, VERY little. I have a great resource in one of my friends who has built race cars to mini vans. He has owned a successful garage for over 20 years. So if he joined and made one post he's somehow less knowledgeable than a join date '06 14,875,689 count guy?

Back on topic. I have the APR pump, just bought it on sale and installed it mid April. Absolutely love it and the tune. That being said I was of the mind to not gamble on such a vital and core component. If this were interior trim, or T20 screws, who cares, but this is a fuel pump. I'm not saying HPFP.com is bad, I'm saying I came to the conclusion that HPFP from APR was better. Also, lifetime warranty. {you're experience may differ}

Thank you for your post count comment. I've never quite figured out how post count automatically = experience or knowledge. The only thing it means that can be clearly defined is someone has posted more than someone else. And unfortunately, many of those hundreds or thousands of posts for some people are of the "moar low" or "SEARCH" kind.

Your basis to buy an APR pump vs HPFP's pump mirror mine. Not down on the company at all, but it's too vital of a component that I made the choice to go with the company that clearly has a proven long term track record.

I do wish HPFP success, competition is good for everyone. I'm also closely watching their cam follower thread. Just because some other company hasn't done it already doesn't mean it shouldn't be done.

 

[GTI4John74]

my .02.

personally when it comes to engine's performance and reliability, i'd go APR over HPFP. I have not seen rail pressure logs of HPFP's pump from other users so I don't see any proof as how reliable HPFP's pump, as for me, i did some logs on my own car back in Sept. 2011, and the APR pump has proven itself very well, i've also seen others who logged their APR HPFP and results were the same, also APR's site proves the same:

this test log might not be enough but it proves that it delivers.

the pump is bang on. :thumbsup:

 

[petsy]

GTI4John74 have you got a RS4 return valve installed?

 

[GTI4John74]

GTI4John74 have you got a RS4 return valve installed?

nope. just a rebuilt APR pump. it's more than enough.

 

[MKV727]

The information is there...I don't know what to tell you. Google hpfpupgrade and you'll start seeing more on different forums such as Mazda.



I will admit their website isn't the best, but they only sell fueling options. A nice website isn't easy, there's a lot of work that goes into it obviously. Moving on to your 2% comment, you clearly have no idea how automotive E-commerce works. That's 2 out of 100 people not being satisfied with their product. When you take into account the people who blame a product because of poor user installation or a problem located somewhere else in the car, you begin to understand that this is a very high standard. APR have a great amount of people that blame the software when in reality, the user failed to prepare his car properly for the tune by installing a product that tampers with the software or the dealer is at fault for flashing a wrong file, etc. There will always be people that dislike your product, you just have to please the majority. APR's solution is to go for reliability which pleases the majority. Some want more power that goes beyond these parameters and opt for something else. That's simply a start to where APR has a GREATER than 2% dissatisfaction rate. So much more goes into that "2%". It's actually an amazing accomplishment in itself and look how successful APR is.


Sorry, not gonna help you read. Maybe someone else is willing to hold your hand so you can read threads


You haven't posted a single issue...what are your "facts"? I've been in and out of this world of VAG cars, behind the scenes, etc. and I can tell you that everything is being done legitimately by hpfpupgrade. From their business tactics to testing to customer support...it's all there. The only thing they don't have is a history from pre-2007. You don't force products out of thin air, that only lasts a few years and your name becomes mud. They're slowly working on their products and making everyone aware of what they're doing. All this is being done while at the same time trying to keep some information from the competition.

If you think APR or someone else hasn't considered doing this, you're very wrong. Autotech had their hardened cam follower, h2sport has their fix, and now hpfpupgrade is working on something of their own. APR relied on the oem product and left it that way even though they knew they could make something better. There are a couple things to this though. First is you have to have something that sells AND profits. Those two are not the same. This was the idea let's say prior to the past 3 years. Hopefully you can understand that APR is focused on products that have a higher profit such as flashes, exhaust systems, intakes, etc. for cars that are worth at least twice our cars. Trust me when I tell you that people with those cars know what they're buying. They want two things. A reliable performance part AND a professional business to deal with for their nice automobile. The room for profit is staggering! Hence APR has found their pot of gold for a good while now and isn't looking to making many more 2.0T FSI parts.

But I digress...anyways...you have some threads to read.

/your_ignorance

Okay, It is very convenient that whenever somebody disagrees with your views on a tuning company that they simply have not "searched" enough. I mentioned before that I have indeed searched. If I were in your shoes and I wanted to discredit the person I am debating with, I would simply link a thread showing how amazing HPFP upgrade is.

IF we are talking FACTS where did you find that APR's success rate on their products is worse than 2%?

All I'm asking is legitimate questions about their manufacturing process, equipment and facilities and you've yet to come up with something other than I haven't "searched" for it and I have. IF it's so simple to find, link me a photo of their facilities, staff and equipment.

Regarding a 2% fail rate, that's still terrible. Without giving away too much about myself I'm qualified to speak about manufacturing performance parts and mechanical engineering. The larger plants run something called Six Sigma quality control. It's a method developed by motorola in the 80's that is used to ensure quality control. When a local plant Lear Corporation (now outsourced) was developing remote keyless entry and other car parts the entire plant was ran under Six Sigma philosophy.

If a plant making simple keyless remotes and other simple electrical parts for car manufactures are producing equipment at that level, a company producing HPFP that are engine critical should damn well be better than a 2% failure rate. I don't need to "search" for this data, I'm not "ignorant" I am absolutely sure about all of this data.

APR has the equipment, the facility and employees to produce HPFP at the proper level of quality. Now who is HPFP upgrade? I did search, stop trying to throw around my "ignorance" and link me a photo of HPFP upgrade's facilities, employees and equipment and their quality control methods. All I can find is a shipping address and that their products "work" and they "improve upon other companies HPFPs" and yadda yadda. I will gladly admit that I'm wrong if you can prove what you are saying, all I'm seeing is an E-Bully using diversion tactics by claiming I'm "ignorant" and haven't "searched". Please explain why you are qualified to tell me how 2% failure rate is excellent?

I didn't really care until you decided to tell me I haven't "searched" and that I'm ignorant on manufacturing processes and the excellent quality control that 2% is. Give me a break and prove me wrong.

EDIT: HPFP upgrade website claims that 2% failure rate is unacceptable and that they strive to perform better than that... It says nothing about improperly installed HPFP's and unhappy customers but merely that their product doesn't fail 2% of the time. You misinterpreted it when you tried to reexplain the concept incorrectly to me.

Regarding this kind of debate on the forum, I am not trying to start a flame fest. I'm attempting to provide manufacturing data and product comparisons between competitors. My hope that this sort of debate is healthy for the forum and that these posts are not infringing on any forum rules.

 

[Red5pade]

nope. just a rebuilt APR pump. it's more than enough.

no, its not, the stock one will crack at i think 110bar, so idk why your prv isnt cracking. luck might have something to do with it. thats the reason he asked if you had a rs4 prv, cause it goes to 140bar i believe. rs4 is a good option, but imo, just get one from hpfpupgrade that can do 150bar. theyre about the same price anyways.