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Nytrogen in the Tires
- Thread starter zogger
- Start date
theholycow
Go Kart Champion
- Location
- Glocester, RI
- Car(s)
- 1980 Buick LeSabre
78%.
fbruxel
stig's brother
- Location
- Brisbane, Australia
- Car(s)
- 07 GTI DSG
Motor magazine last month mentioned this as a waste of $ as normal air is 78% nitrogen anyway.. gives you the red caps and that's about it!
In motorsport where every tenth of a second counts, it might help by maintaining temperatures a bit better; but in the real world you're wasting your dollars! You might as well shave every hair of your body just in case you do any swimming or cycling, or for the fact you'll reduce your overall mass and gain a 0.000001 kw/ton advantage!
In motorsport where every tenth of a second counts, it might help by maintaining temperatures a bit better; but in the real world you're wasting your dollars! You might as well shave every hair of your body just in case you do any swimming or cycling, or for the fact you'll reduce your overall mass and gain a 0.000001 kw/ton advantage!
As pointed out above compressed air consists of 78 percent nitrogen, 21 percent oxygen and 1 percent other gases (and you can have 1-5% humidity).
One of the benefits is supposed to be is that you get less loss of air through the tyre, that's fine but each time you fill won't you be already getting a higher concentration of nitrogen as loosing 10% of the volume of the tyre would mean you've lost a fair portion of the oxygen?
The lack of humidity in the nitrogen filled tyre means that your tyre pressure doesn't vary by much but really does it matter for street use? We're only talking a few percent difference between the two.
As for their better fuel economy claims, this is only based on it holding the pressure for longer which is somewhat doubtful and there has been little real life research on this. Far better to check the tyre pressures from time to time.
It's all snake oil as far as I'm concerned and a complete and utter waste of money.
Hmm.. key reasons for using nitrogen are marketed as:
1. Temperature sensitivity reduction (lower water content means less pressure variation due to heat). Good for track days, less important for normal road use.
2. Permeability - due to the larger molecule size there is less pressure loss over time due to gas seeping through the tyre.
3. Less corrosion on the inside of the wheels. Lower water/impurity content means less nasties sitting inside the tyre.
Personally I use Nitrogen in my tyres, it costs about $3 if you get it done when you get new tyres fitted.
I check my pressures weekly (or more often depending on what I'm doing in the car - a long trip eg. Sydney/Brisbane return I'll check em daily). In the 6 months since I've had the new wheels on the car I have had any (measurable) variation in pressure.
1. Temperature sensitivity reduction (lower water content means less pressure variation due to heat). Good for track days, less important for normal road use.
2. Permeability - due to the larger molecule size there is less pressure loss over time due to gas seeping through the tyre.
3. Less corrosion on the inside of the wheels. Lower water/impurity content means less nasties sitting inside the tyre.
Personally I use Nitrogen in my tyres, it costs about $3 if you get it done when you get new tyres fitted.
I check my pressures weekly (or more often depending on what I'm doing in the car - a long trip eg. Sydney/Brisbane return I'll check em daily). In the 6 months since I've had the new wheels on the car I have had any (measurable) variation in pressure.
ABR32
New member
- Location
- Sydney, Australia
I had to have a tyre repaired on the .:R because of a stray nail. Thank god for tyre pressure warnings because I wouldn't have noticed anything visually on the 40 profile tyres until it was too late! :thumbup:
Anyway at the same time I had all tyres changed to nytrogen and I couldn't be happier. In 6 months the pressures haven't gone down even 1 psi and I can have them set higher all the time 'cause I don't have to worry about fluctuations with heat.
As said before for about $4-$5 a corner why wouldn't you?
Anyway at the same time I had all tyres changed to nytrogen and I couldn't be happier. In 6 months the pressures haven't gone down even 1 psi and I can have them set higher all the time 'cause I don't have to worry about fluctuations with heat.
As said before for about $4-$5 a corner why wouldn't you?
Dingah
Crusty Aviator
- Location
- Canberra Airport
- Car(s)
- Audi SQ5
A waste of your money or indeed a smart money-making venture.
Other than the fact it will not support combustion in the event of a fire and precludes the onset of corrosion on the inside of the wheel/rim assembly there are no tangible benefits that warrant the additional cost and maintenance hassle.
But why let facts and logic get in the way of well-contrived spin?
The only discernable improvement in performance will be due to the decreased mass in your wallet!
Dingah
Other than the fact it will not support combustion in the event of a fire and precludes the onset of corrosion on the inside of the wheel/rim assembly there are no tangible benefits that warrant the additional cost and maintenance hassle.
But why let facts and logic get in the way of well-contrived spin?
The only discernable improvement in performance will be due to the decreased mass in your wallet!
Dingah
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I'm sure the placebo effect is worth it to some people. My flatmate has a Daihatsu with a carby and he always puts premium unleaded in it for highway driving as 'it has more power'. To him, it's worth it even though the physics doesn't add up.
There is no real benefit for street use. On my previous car, which i use to track regularly, i did the experiment and tried nitrogen.
With air in the tyres, under heavy load and during the course of a 20 minute session on track, it was not uncommon for tyre pressures to increase beyond 12PSI. With Nitrogen in the tyres, pressure never changed by more than 2PSI. This allowed me to run my preferred pressure all of the time - street or track - without having to reduce pressure on track to ensure i achieve optimum grip during a session. The added benefit of the nitrogen, pressure wise, was that my tyre pressure were right from the very start meaning more consistent lap times throughout a 20 minute session.
Between two sets of tyres, both identical size, type and brand on the same car, one was fitted with Nitrogen and the other not. The set without the nitrogen provided around 7500km less life. This was with an equal share of track work on the same tracks. I might also add that my driving style changed for the better during that period - so it may be a coincidence that the nitrogen filled tyres provided greater life.
I have no doubt that the nitrogen was a massive improvement in pressure stability for track use. For road use, i wouldn't bother - it made no difference, in my experience.
As for the cost - BJT use to charge $5 per tyre AND provide free refills/topups for the life of the tyres. Hardly and extrodinary money making excercise...
With air in the tyres, under heavy load and during the course of a 20 minute session on track, it was not uncommon for tyre pressures to increase beyond 12PSI. With Nitrogen in the tyres, pressure never changed by more than 2PSI. This allowed me to run my preferred pressure all of the time - street or track - without having to reduce pressure on track to ensure i achieve optimum grip during a session. The added benefit of the nitrogen, pressure wise, was that my tyre pressure were right from the very start meaning more consistent lap times throughout a 20 minute session.
Between two sets of tyres, both identical size, type and brand on the same car, one was fitted with Nitrogen and the other not. The set without the nitrogen provided around 7500km less life. This was with an equal share of track work on the same tracks. I might also add that my driving style changed for the better during that period - so it may be a coincidence that the nitrogen filled tyres provided greater life.
I have no doubt that the nitrogen was a massive improvement in pressure stability for track use. For road use, i wouldn't bother - it made no difference, in my experience.
As for the cost - BJT use to charge $5 per tyre AND provide free refills/topups for the life of the tyres. Hardly and extrodinary money making excercise...
Dingah
Crusty Aviator
- Location
- Canberra Airport
- Car(s)
- Audi SQ5
Spot on - fully agree.
Rather like the fellow that purchases a re-flashed software, only loads the economy program (!?) and then reports discernable improvements in performance and economy. The formula is I believe is:
dollars invested = discernable improvement in performance (regardless):bellyroll: .
Dingah
There's plenty of information out there to dispel the myths of Nitrogen usage. Generally the only people supporting it are the companies selling it and those who want to justify their purchase. I guess Nitrogen is the modern version of the fuel polarizer for ROAD use (use in aviation and motor sports is another matter).
Consumer Reports - 1 year study shows waste of time
Racq - waste of time
MSN Money - waste of time
Is it better to fill your tires with nitrogen instead of air?
Nitrogen in tires - Q&A
Inflating car tires: Air or nitrogen?
Bob Jane - pro
JaxQuickFit - pro
Consumer Reports - 1 year study shows waste of time
Racq - waste of time
MSN Money - waste of time
Is it better to fill your tires with nitrogen instead of air?
Nitrogen in tires - Q&A
Inflating car tires: Air or nitrogen?
Bob Jane - pro
JaxQuickFit - pro
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It has to do something or race teams wouldn't bother with it... but as mentioned previously its a tiny something that means bugger all on the road.
As for having to adjust pressures less... in the 18 months i've owned the car the only time i've had to change the pressures was for a track day after 14 months, they've been spot on every other time.... ahh good old AIR!
As for having to adjust pressures less... in the 18 months i've owned the car the only time i've had to change the pressures was for a track day after 14 months, they've been spot on every other time.... ahh good old AIR!