Wrapping intake in heat wrap tape

[BlueAHR32]

man with the golden tape.... looks sort of lunar-module-like ... kewl.

:lol: Tom Hanks would be proud. On a serious note though I actually like the Gold. Different, yet functional.

 

[Little_Red_Fast]

Same here man! I thought I wouldnt like it at first because I don't like anything real flashy, but it grew on me!

 

[WickedLou9]

I honestly don't think it's worth the trouble. It will keep the intake cool for a while but when it finally does get warm (and it eventually will) this will just make it stay warm a lot longer by trapping the heat IN.

 

[Little_Red_Fast]

I honestly don't think it's worth the trouble. It will keep the intake cool for a while but when it finally does get warm (and it eventually will) this will just make it stay warm a lot longer by trapping the heat IN.

On long drives where you shouldn't mind about having the absolute coolest intake air temps possible, yeah, I would tend to agree, but only to a certain point. Its not like you are riding it at WOT for long periods of time generating tons of heat. So the heating up of the tape/wrap will occur, but then it will be cooled as well (albeit from the inside out when you are sucking in cool air at low engine load).

BUT, like I have said before in this thread, I am working on maxing out the stock turbo. What this means to me is, keep as much heat out for as long as possible. Then in between runs at the track, dyno, whatever, use a secondary source to cool down the wrap/tape/intake pipe (i.e. a fan to increase the convection, which cools it down faster).

I don't claim to be a guru with this stuff, so please, correct me if I am wrong.:smile:

 

[PRND[S]]

Really? So our insulation on the pipe and the cooler to the touch feel is just an illusion? I will have to remember that insulation is worthless (since apparently it is only good for keeping the inside warm...not cold, who knew?) when I insulate my house to keep the AC inside in the summer months.

Ever heard of Heat Transfer? Well, I have, and I worked my ass off in college to graduate cum laude at an engineering school, Heat Transfer being one of the classes. So, for example, my wrap. I first have the pipe wrapped in header wrap. This doesn't change the aluminum's thermal conductive properties, but it changes the ambient conditions in which it is surrounded. Therefore, the ambient conditions are cooler for the aluminum which means...who would have thought, the aluminum is not as hot?!? WOW! Here is a wikipedia link so you can study up on the header wrap's ability to make the intake piping cooler because of the fact that the header wrap and aluminum are in contact with one another and the heat is reduced through the thickness of the material:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_contact_conductance

Then here is a link so you can learn what conductance even is:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_conduction

Okay, the next part of my wrap is the gold reflective tape. No need to go through all the crap, all I can say is that the effect of thermal radiation is lowered because the gold material reflects the thermal radiation rather than absorbing it, in turn making the surface cooler. Here is some light reading for you:

http://panda.unm.edu/Courses/Finley/P262/ThermalRad/ThermalRad.html

Enjoy!

You graduated with honors in engineering, but clearly failed reading comprehension. I'm not even sure about your engineering skills, but that's a different matter...

Please re-read what I wrote. I'm not arguing that the intake air temperature can't be lowered by wrapping the air intake. What I'm arguing with is that the pipe will feel cooler as a result.

The heat wrap improves insulation (the only way it can reduce heat transfer to the air in the intake), so the cool air inside the pipe has less of a cooling effect on the temperature of the wrapped pipe's outside. The only way the outside of the pipe can feel colder is if the heat transfer was improved, which is the opposite of what the wrap does.

Alright, here is a simplified scenario that you should be able to follow: you have an ice cube. It feels cold in a warm room. You wrap it in header tape to keep the ice from melting. You touch the wrapped cube. Does it still feel cold, or does it feel suspiciously like it is at room temperature?

What you are trying to tell me is that the header tape will actually feel cooler than the ice cube does by itself. Sorry, that ain't happening.

And please spare me the reflective heat foil stuff, I responded to ViRtUaLheretic's post which has no heat foil visible.

 

[JoeyDaBomb]

I used 2" and about a 1" overlap which is more than recommended, and uses a lot more wrap than necessary, but gives extra thickness which helps insulate better.

Did you stretch it any when installing it?

 

[ViRtUaLheretic]

I can only tell you what I have seen so far, my intake tube is much cooler to the touch regardless of what you think or say I am experiencing this first hand. Wether or not this makes much difference to performance is a whole different ball game, and I knew not to expect much gains from this (if any). I did quite a bit of research on header wrap and wrapping intakes and exhaust systems and I knew what I was getting into when I decided to try this.

Basically the header wrap is acting as a thermal barrier between the hottest part of the engine bay right over the turbo where the intake tube resides. Im not going to post any fancy pants heat transfer equations or anything of that sort nor and I some sort of heat transfer expert. I have a friend who is pursuing a Masters degree in Mechanical Engineering with an emphasis in Heat Transfer and I can ask him some questions if you like and he can bore you and I with the details of it if you would so like.

All I know is that the turbo creates the most heat in the engine bay (very obvious fact) and creating a barrier between that and from the air inlet makes logical sense to me. There are quite a few people that have done this and have written about it. Mike from Forge has written quite a bit about using Header wrap on his DP and he is quite an intelligent person and the fact that he wrapped his intake as well only makes this project seem like an even better idea in my book.

Im not trying to question your intelligence, nor am I calling you out. I am just pointing out my ideas and some facts.
Are there huge gains to be had from this? NO
Are there ANY gains had from this? I would surely think so. Finding any way to introduce cooler and denser air into the engine should net you some gains and I feel that this has helped in that aspect. :thumbsup:

 

[slanky]

if the gains are minuscule, the price is marginal, and the aesthetics are horrid - why would anyone waste their time/money on this?

 

[Mike@Forge]

You graduated with honors in engineering, but clearly failed reading comprehension. I'm not even sure about your engineering skills, but that's a different matter...

Please re-read what I wrote. I'm not arguing that the intake air temperature can't be lowered by wrapping the air intake. What I'm arguing with is that the pipe will feel cooler as a result.

The heat wrap improves insulation (the only way it can reduce heat transfer to the air in the intake), so the cool air inside the pipe has less of a cooling effect on the temperature of the wrapped pipe's outside. The only way the outside of the pipe can feel colder is if the heat transfer was improved, which is the opposite of what the wrap does.

Alright, here is a simplified scenario that you should be able to follow: you have an ice cube. It feels cold in a warm room. You wrap it in header tape to keep the ice from melting. You touch the wrapped cube. Does it still feel cold, or does it feel suspiciously like it is at room temperature?

What you are trying to tell me is that the header tape will actually feel cooler than the ice cube does by itself. Sorry, that ain't happening.

And please spare me the reflective heat foil stuff, I responded to ViRtUaLheretic's post which has no heat foil visible.

Your arguement is otherwise sound, except for one glaringly obvious oversight on your part.

The ambient air entering the intake tract is not a static volume of air that is constantly being insulated. There is continuous flow of fresh COOL air that is replenished constantly as the engine is running.

Insulating a static volume is one thing, but continuously introducing the coolest air possible to that volume keeps things cool.

 

[slanky]

Seal a drinking straw and insulate it... pointless.

blow cool air through a drinking straw and insulate it... the cool air stays cool

I want to see IAT comparisons before/after doing this. those who argue it does something/nothing should be willing to prove their claims.

I have a ScanGauge II in my car and it measures IAT with a descent refresh rate of about one sample per second. I notice that my IAT is ALWAYS closer to ambient when it is cooler out. However, I have noticed that the gap between IAT and ambient is getting larger, hence hinting to mee that I have some sort of leak. it used to be that 50 *F, 50 MPH would yield me with ~ 50 *F IAT. the same conditions now give me ~63 *F IAT

is my intercooler plugged?

 

[07Noside]

Seal a drinking straw and insulate it... pointless.

blow cool air through a drinking straw and insulate it... the cool air stays cool

I want to see IAT comparisons before/after doing this. those who argue it does something/nothing should be willing to prove their claims.

I have a ScanGauge II in my car and it measures IAT with a descent refresh rate of about one sample per second. I notice that my IAT is ALWAYS closer to ambient when it is cooler out. However, I have noticed that the gap between IAT and ambient is getting larger, hence hinting to mee that I have some sort of leak. it used to be that 50 *F, 50 MPH would yield me with ~ 50 *F IAT. the same conditions now give me ~63 *F IAT

is my intercooler plugged?

your forgetting that the cool air is at say 60-70*F while its surrounded by 190*F ambient conditions. I think it will pick up a few degrees. Sorry but its pretty sound and a old, tried and proven method.

your intercooler is heat soaking thats what happens..... thats why you upgrade to stay consistant...

1 sample per second is a pretty slow refresh rate also 3-4/second is good.

 

[Mike@Forge]

I believe it does something, but I'm not going to spend the time to remove/replace my intake/wrap now just to attempt to prove known fundamental properties of physics. I just don't have that kind of time. The pipes are cooler to the touch and everyone acknowledges that. It's kind of an effort in futility at this point.

 

[slanky]

1 sample per second is a pretty slow refresh rate also 3-4/second is good.

yeah, it just uses OBD II so I don't expect miracles.

How would the wrap compare to making an intake tube with fins, like a giant heat sink? would it just get hotter due to more surface area and the high ambient temp?

 

[KUGTI]

DEI offers both woven wrap as well as gold foil.

http://www.designengineering.com/products.asp?m=sp&pid=9

http://www.designengineering.com/products.asp?m=sp&pid=75

I use their wrap on my intake as well as my entire turbo-back exhaust. (yes, from the turbo to the tips)

That looks great! How much length do you think would be needed to cover a catless dp?

 

[PRND[S]]

I can only tell you what I have seen so far, my intake tube is much cooler to the touch regardless of what you think or say I am experiencing this first hand.

Thermal energy always flows from hot to cold, so if you insulate the intake pipe using header tape, less energy is transferred from the engine compartment to the intake pipe -- the temperature of the air inside the intake drops, and the engine compartment actually gets hotter because less heat is dissipated through the intake pipe.

Don't get me wrong, the idea of dropping the intake air temperature by wrapping it in header tape is sound, but the notion that the temperature of the outside of the pipe goes down as well is a fallacy. The only way that could happen is if more energy was dissipated, which would require that the heat transfer be increased and that is the opposite of what header tape does.