Why I sold my Tesla Model 3 Performance & went back to gas

[victorofhavoc]

Yeah, it's hard to make a case as an only car, but as a daily commuter that gets plugged in at night, they work well. I have a buddy that commutes in a Leaf. He said it's been fantastic and dirt cheap.

Yeah I think this is the mindset that the general population will evolve.

Also, because most car enthusiasts can't and won't afford $100k toys the fun souped up econobox mindset will eventually shift from "wants an rs6 but buys a golf r" to "wants a taycan but buys a nismo leaf".

I do think there's potential for ev to be really awesome and capable, but I think the power store method is highly inefficient. Manufacturers need to think bigger and more "how do I generate power as I go". The bolt is technically not a hybrid, but generates power as it drives. It does it from traditional combustible fuel sources (and Mazda is planning similar with a rotary generator), but imagine if you could use a simple liquid to liquid chemical reaction that has a high energy output. It's not unfathomable, but we'd have to find a good way to put energy in without the volatility factor of high energy storage (think batteries bursting into flames when cells rupture or gasoline fumes going kaboom).

 

[Cuzoe]

As far as getting around ICE vehicles are basically one size fits all (ignoring that you need a truck, I need a van, you want a sports car, etc.). I think EV's are going to slot in to specific use cases dictated by various things... climate where you live, charging infrastructure, your commute, etc. Wife and I haven't had an issue on road trips with the Tesla, but that's entirely due to the supercharger network.

As for use cases, the Aptera (assuming it can recoup the ~30 miles per day they claim using its top mounted solar panels) would be perfect for me. I have a 10 minute commute and then my car sits in an uncovered airport parking for 8-10 hours. I would be net positive every day, and would never need to plug in and charge the thing. Two seats is a limitation for me (if this were my only car) but would be no problem if I was single or we didn't plan on kids.

Even though I drive our Tesla most of the time it's ideal for my wife. Her commute is about 15 miles each way. She can go the whole week without charging (we plug into the 110 for super slow charging at night but we don't have to). And being in LA we're fortunate enough to have charging available all over the place, a not insignificant amount of that is free (gym, grocery store, etc.). Her commute meant we had to get the LR though, the SR would have been cutting it close if she ran errands beyond just to/from work.

My father is an electrician. He doesn't (by choice, he's 60+ now) take any jobs that are more than about 30 miles from home. An F-150 Lightning with 200 miles of range would suit him fine. He can semi-fast charge at home on 220 dedicated.

 

[The Fed]

Great write-up. If I wanted to spend $100K+ for an EV I would buy a Rivian. I wouldn't sell my ICE car though. I might need to tow the Rivian home.

 

[The Fed]

Notice how Europe doesn't seem to have the range problems as much? Maybe because their "AAA" club includes service trucks that carry a huge battery to give you enough charge to get you home or to a commercial charger.

 

[victorofhavoc]

Notice how Europe doesn't seem to have the range problems as much? Maybe because their "AAA" club includes service trucks that carry a huge battery to give you enough charge to get you home or to a commercial charger.

Generally they drive far shorter distances than we do in the US and at generally lower speeds where the ev does a much better job.

Also, how many vehicles out there will be able to tow the rivian? Lol, from what I recall reading it won't be unhears of for pickup truck ev to start weighing 10-12k lbs. With a big enough trailer you're getting into heavy diesel territory to tow it!

 

[SnailPower]

Anyone else feel that waiting for 20-30minutes for a charge is terrible or am I in the minority and hating too hard? Obviously not at home, but when you're out on the road.

I had a conversation once with a friend about whether to pay tolls to get from point A to B quickly or use the option to go around tolls, but increase the trip time. At the end of the day, he said, time is money. He rather have more time in his life and pay to get where he needs to quicker than use an option to save money and spend more "wasted" time.

I'm not sure that is similar to what I'm talking about here, but I'd rather fill up my gas tank in about 2 minutes than spend 20-30 minutes sitting/standing around waiting to charge up. If they can get quality charging down to 5-10minutes, it might appeal to me, but heck, even 10 minutes feels too long to me.

 

[Acadia18]

Anyone else feel that waiting for 20-30minutes for a charge is terrible or am I in the minority and hating too hard? Obviously not at home, but when you're out on the road.

I had a conversation once with a friend about whether to pay tolls to get from point A to B quickly or use the option to go around tolls, but increase the trip time. At the end of the day, he said, time is money. He rather have more time in his life and pay to get where he needs to quicker than use an option to save money and spend more "wasted" time.

I'm not sure that is similar to what I'm talking about here, but I'd rather fill up my gas tank in about 2 minutes than spend 20-30 minutes sitting/standing around waiting to charge up. If they can get quality charging down to 5-10minutes, it might appeal to me, but heck, even 10 minutes feels too long to me.

No, it's terrible. Tech has come a long way, but I don't think it's there yet.

 

[Cuzoe]

It's not terrible. Watch some Netflix/Hulu/YouTube or whatever for a bit. Lots of the big charging stations are (or are starting to be) located near malls/shopping centers etc. and others are having those things built around them so you don't have to sit in your car. Budget your time like you would anything else. Maybe it takes some more planning for a road trip. Although to be fair I don't believe "time is money" when you're on a road trip. And if you're at a low state of charge you don't have the ability to spur of the moment jump in the car to start a 500 mile trip without stopping to charge at some point. But I don't know how many people are really doing that anyway. It seems, to me, that a lot of the people that say the charging time is too long/too inconvenient/would never work for them/etc. only choose examples where that charging time is an actual problem.

I'm speaking only of Tesla superchargers by the way... the rest of the charging infrastructure can f*** all the way off (right now). I don't mind putting in a destination 350 miles away and our car (Model 3 LR) says I should stop at supercharger xx for 25 minutes in order to arrive at my destination with 100 miles of range left (you can choose this, if I'm going home I can choose to arrive with much less range and save time en-route). I have confidence that when I pull up to the supercharger and plug-in my shit is going to charge at near the rate those chargers are advertised at. All that other non-sense of downloading an app, hoping the kiosk accepts the CC, hoping it gives me a decent charge rate, half the spots being inop (and not advertised as inop, which you can see with the superchargers) is bull jive. The actual act of charging should be on par with getting gas (arguably it's easier with the supercharger network) even though the charge/fill time does not have parity.

 

[mwoodski]

No, it's terrible. Tech has come a long way, but I don't think it's there yet.

It's only terrible bc you end up at a place like a New Jersey rest stop and not like somewhere decent like a NY-17 rest area.

Like when I go up to WGI for the six hour I stop to take a shit and stretch my legs here for a bit. If we operated like Japan with vending machines for food and drink just pop a few there with ten or so chargers and it's a real nice place to relax for a bit.

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.993...4!1sxtIcbce90X3zHgTml_X2QQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

[Acadia18]

Until charging an EV is as thoughtless as getting gas for your car, there will never be mass adoption and EV's will remain a (growing) niche market. With an ICE car, you don't have to put any real thought into getting gas. You know there's gas stations everywhere, and it doesn't take more than a couple minutes to go from 0 to 100. When you buy an ICE car, you don't have to think "How am I going to refill my gas?". It's just not a consideration. There's been great developments in charging infrastructure and battery tech, but we're not at a point where charging your car is a thoughtless thing. Before you buy an EV, you have to have a plan of "How am I going to charge it?". Maybe the answer is installing a charger at your house. Maybe you plan on doing it at the office. Who knows, there's options. But you still have to think about it and have a plan.

 

[bentin]

Until charging an EV is as thoughtless as getting gas for your car, there will never be mass adoption and EV's will remain a (growing) niche market. With an ICE car, you don't have to put any real thought into getting gas. You know there's gas stations everywhere, and it doesn't take more than a couple minutes to go from 0 to 100. When you buy an ICE car, you don't have to think "How am I going to refill my gas?". It's just not a consideration. There's been great developments in charging infrastructure and battery tech, but we're not at a point where charging your car is a thoughtless thing. Before you buy an EV, you have to have a plan of "How am I going to charge it?". Maybe the answer is installing a charger at your house. Maybe you plan on doing it at the office. Who knows, there's options. But you still have to think about it and have a plan.

I actually feel the opposite, being able to charge 99% of the time at home and not having to feel guilty about my frequent short trips not getting oil temps up would be great. I like having a car that makes noises and has three pedals and unlimited, practical mileage. But a $30k Mini Cooper EV or similar would make a great daily for me.

 

[Cuzoe]

There weren't always gas stations everywhere though. And the previous argument was that it takes too much time and now the argument is that it's not mindless like getting gas. Once the infrastructure is there, it will be mindless.

Tesla started working on the infrastructure problem as a single company. I understand that the government was not going to jump in and start funding EV infrastructure in the mid 2010s because It was just Tesla that could benefit. But as all of the manufacturers start producing EVs, it's going to happen.

It happens that here in the states everything is spread out and we built our cities to need cars, and then a lot of cases need to travel long distances in those cars. But even given that, the majority of people have a commute that would be perfectly well served by an EV that hits 200 mi of range. A lot of those people also say they won't get an EV because once a month they need to drive 300 miles in a day .

 

[Acadia18]

There weren't always gas stations everywhere though. And the previous argument was that it takes too much time and now the argument is that it's not mindless like getting gas. Once the infrastructure is there, it will be mindless.

Tesla started working on the infrastructure problem as a single company. I understand that the government was not going to jump in and start funding EV infrastructure in the mid 2010s because It was just Tesla that could benefit. But as all of the manufacturers start producing EVs, it's going to happen.

It happens that here in the states everything is spread out and we built our cities to need cars, and then a lot of cases need to travel long distances in those cars. But even given that, the majority of people have a commute that would be perfectly well served by an EV that hits 200 mi of range. A lot of those people also say they won't get an EV because once a month they need to drive 300 miles in a day .

Oh I agree. It'll get there one day. Rome's gas stations weren't built in a day. I'm just saying we're not there yet, and until we are, it'll remain a niche market.

 

[mwoodski]

Also it wont make one shit lick of difference until every single EV is on the same charging port style.

 

[bentin]

Also it wont make one shit lick of difference until every single EV is on the same charging port style.

Not really a big deal, you can get converters for most types. Apple's made it this long with a dumb charging plug.