What is Boost Manager (BM+)?!

[Mostic]

I saw the BM+ expression in many threads and honestly I didn't know what is it!
I decided to do some researches in order to learn new things.

As I read in the Eurodyne page that: Boost manager is a programmable Water methanol and fuel pump controller with 2 additional outputs that can be configured for boost control, water methanol solenoid control, or to control an additional injector.
http://www.eurodyne.ca/shop/uncategorized/boost-manager-2/

Here is another DIY link I found related the subject but for me it is like a Hieroglyphics (Ancient Egyptian)! :iono:

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showt...ger-Plus-amp-Water-Meth-(Wiring-Walk-Through)


The question is why do I need it if I have a Devils Own or Snow Performance WMI controller that I can choose when to Start and Full spray?
Also, I have the USP LPFP Auxiliary Stage 3 with the controller too.

I don't know why to use the BM+ as it seems complicated, so for me it must be a real benefits the BM+ will give to me and I can't get from the existed setup to go for it!

I hope if the experts can explain well about it so all of us can learn.
Thanks...

 

[flat tire]

You don't need BM+.

BM+ is for people making enough power they need additional fueling, hence the LPFP and port injection control. It also has a failsafe water / meth feature and can control a wastegate solenoid as well as solenoids for fluids (water / water+meth / fuel / nitrous). None of this is a big deal. All this stuff already exists for people who want it. Eurodyne has just put several features together in a moderately expensive package and added the option to control a few parameters by mapping.

All that stuff would give a person like YOU is slight additional and mostly useless control over your water / meth. The motor has plenty of failsafes built in stock to run water-meth without any issues whatsoever if it goes dry, so you don't need an external failsafe.

 

[613B6]

I use it to drive my TTRS lpfp, run an additional injector and my meth pump. I keep boost control simple with a mbc. I don't know of another all in one package that does this, but like mention you can certainly get to the same spot with a pile of additional products for more money lol

 

[Mostic]

Thanks for the Experts, I was wonder why I saw BM+ in some threads but not in all BT threads.

 

[ViRtUaLheretic]

The advantage of using BM+ for w/m over a progressive boost based controller is that you can incorporate w/m control straight into your tune, rather than just being boost based.
It give you more precise control, but is not absolutely necessary.

If I ever end up going BT I plan to use maestro and will pickup a BM+ just for this.

 

[flat tire]

Maestro blows balls...get a BDM100 and have actual, FULL control over the ECU for about $700 less. Oh, and it flashes in 3.5 minutes instead of 15. lol

The cost in a BM+ is all in the features. You could build one yourself for under $150 using a microcontroller and probably spec better components too. As a matter of fact I am working on this now using a arduino w/ canbus shield to replace my MAF-based WM controller :thumbsup:. Actually, to get really clever, with custom code it would be possible to use a pwm output from the stock ECU to control the WM (or other things like aux fueling) and all you would need is a power supply, but I'm not skilled enough to write that code yet. This probably requires sacrificing some "optional" equipment like evap as I'm not sure if the ECU has unused PWM output.

 

[mattysachs]

BM+ or BMP (Boost Manager Plus) is the second generation, dual-output water-methanol and/or fuel pump controller that was sold and supported by Eurodyne for some time until Eurodyne decided to focus all of their attention on their core competency of providing leading-edge chip tuning solutions. Torqbyte, as the original hardware designers of this device are now marketing the 3rd generation of it as CM5 (CM stands for Control Module and PM stands for Power Module). (full disclosure: I work at the said company)

Functionally, CM5 appears identical to the BM+, but there are some internal electronic hardware and external packaging differences that allow it to handle higher currents at its two pump outputs and also handle higher analog input voltages. The PC-side configuration software for the CM5 is also different than what originally came with the BM+. The new software is called TorqTune.

The "claim to fame" of these controllers consisted of several unique features that were not typically found on other controllers:

1. The ability for the user to download his/her own custom 3D map of 256 pump duty values based on RPM and Boost or RPM and another 0-5V signal. The unit's microcontroller performs two-dimensional linear interpolation which smooths out the duty values between adjacent table cells. If required by your set-up, you can add peaks or dips anywhere in the map. This level of control over your water-methanol delivery is not available with any of the rudimentary water-methanol controllers which base their output duty off a single measured parameter (like boost or MAF sensor output).

2. Dual pump outputs which can be used to simultaneously control two independent pumps (each with its own dedicated duty table and its own control scheme). With this, CM5 can be used to drive 2 water meth pumps, one water meth and one fuel pump, or 2 fuel pumps (probably not that common a set-up but the option is there). Again, two pumps off a single controller is something not available with the other pump controllers on the market.

3. Factory VAG PWM controller pass-through circuitry allows the CM5 to handle the current supply role for your aftermarket LPFP which would otherwise overload and overheat your factory PWM. This specialized circuitry allows the ECU + the factory PWM to stay in complete control of the fuel pump. or... you can set the CM5 to "obey" the stock PWM controller all the time or you can set it to "obey" only below some pre-set RPM/boost level above which your user-entered 3D map kicks in and takes over, or you can set up the CM5 to ignore the stock PWM controller completely and program in your own duty values that span the entire RPM/Boost band giving you full control of your car's fueling. You want 100% duty at 900RPM or 50% at 5000RPM? You can do that.

4. Two additional low-power outputs (called General Purpose Outputs 1 and 2) each with its own dedicated 256 cell table that can be used for controlling a boost solenoid, spare fuel injectors, an anti-siphon water methanol solenoid valve, relays, LEDs, lamps, buzzers, etc. These outputs can be configured to put out a variable duty or can be configured to just turn ON/OFF.

There are a bunch of other features that the CM5 provides like PID-based boost control and pump overcurrent and undercurrent detection, but this post is getting too long and too "salesey" to go into those.

@flat_tire: CM5 uses the highest-end components from leading semiconductor companies like Infineon, Texas Instruments and Analog Devices. It's also fully manufactured in North America - from bare Printed Circuit Boards (PCBs), to automated Surface Mount Technology (SMT) assembly to CNC machined housings. I do agree with you 100% that any determined DIYer could do something similar with some discrete parts and an Arduino board. Given enough spare time one could even replace their ME7 with a Raspberry Pi plus some peripheral hardware.

Any CM5-related technical questions, just drop me a line.

 

[proxima]

Maestro blows balls...get a BDM100 and have actual, FULL control over the ECU for about $700 less. Oh, and it flashes in 3.5 minutes instead of 15. lol

The cost in a BM+ is all in the features. You could build one yourself for under $150 using a microcontroller and probably spec better components too. As a matter of fact I am working on this now using a arduino w/ canbus shield to replace my MAF-based WM controller :thumbsup:. Actually, to get really clever, with custom code it would be possible to use a pwm output from the stock ECU to control the WM (or other things like aux fueling) and all you would need is a power supply, but I'm not skilled enough to write that code yet. This probably requires sacrificing some "optional" equipment like evap as I'm not sure if the ECU has unused PWM output.

Could you elaborate a bit more on the BDM100?

 

[mattysachs]

According to Google, BDM 100 is a microprocessor reader/programmer made by the China ECU Tools Centre. Whereas tool sets like Meastro read out and (re)program the ECU through its built-in ISO K-Line or CANBus interfaces, BDM 100 seems to read the ECU's processor using a brute-force approach via the processor's JTAG port. Wikipedia can explain what a JTAG port is, but suffice it to say that it's a common programming/reading interface found on a majority of modern processors and programmable logic devices that are not at all ECU-specific (for example you can read out and mess with things in your X-Box using tools similar to this). While this tool will probably work OK in letting one read out the full binary contents of the ECU's microprocessor and its off-board flash memory, some specialized software (that may or may not be included with this tool) and some specialized knowledge of where to look, what to look for and what to change will be required to view and modify the file that was read out and flash it back into the ECU after the changes are made. This device also appears to support only some processor families, so the user needs to verify their ECU's processor is on the list of supported devices. Also, while tools like Meastro write only the functional areas of memory of interest , this tool will allow one to erase and re-write the whole processor's memory space which, if you are not careful, can brick the whole ECU. It definitely looks like a tool for the most advanced of users.

 

[proxima]

According to Google, BDM 100 is a microprocessor reader/programmer made by the China ECU Tools Centre. Whereas tool sets like Meastro read out and (re)program the ECU through its built-in ISO K-Line or CANBus interfaces, BDM 100 seems to read the ECU's processor using a brute-force approach via the processor's JTAG port. Wikipedia can explain what a JTAG port is, but suffice it to say that it's a common programming/reading interface found on a majority of modern processors and programmable logic devices that are not at all ECU-specific (for example you can read out and mess with things in your X-Box using tools similar to this). While this tool will probably work OK in letting one read out the full binary contents of the ECU's microprocessor and its off-board flash memory, some specialized software (that may or may not be included with this tool) and some specialized knowledge of where to look, what to look for and what to change will be required to view and modify the file that was read out and flash it back into the ECU after the changes are made. This device also appears to support only some processor families, so the user needs to verify their ECU's processor is on the list of supported devices. Also, while tools like Meastro write only the functional areas of memory of interest , this tool will allow one to erase and re-write the whole processor's memory space which, if you are not careful, can brick the whole ECU. It definitely looks like a tool for the most advanced of users.

Ah I gotcha, it certainly isn't something I should consider as a Maestro alternative then.

 

[ErBall]

BM+ or BMP (Boost Manager Plus) is the second generation, dual-output water-methanol and/or fuel pump controller that was sold and supported by Eurodyne for some time until Eurodyne decided to focus all of their attention on their core competency of providing leading-edge chip tuning solutions. Torqbyte, as the original hardware designers of this device are now marketing the 3rd generation of it as CM5 (CM stands for Control Module and PM stands for Power Module). (full disclosure: I work at the said company)

Functionally, CM5 appears identical to the BM+, but there are some internal electronic hardware and external packaging differences that allow it to handle higher currents at its two pump outputs and also handle higher analog input voltages. The PC-side configuration software for the CM5 is also different than what originally came with the BM+. The new software is called TorqTune.

The "claim to fame" of these controllers consisted of several unique features that were not typically found on other controllers:

1. The ability for the user to download his/her own custom 3D map of 256 pump duty values based on RPM and Boost or RPM and another 0-5V signal. The unit's microcontroller performs two-dimensional linear interpolation which smooths out the duty values between adjacent table cells. If required by your set-up, you can add peaks or dips anywhere in the map. This level of control over your water-methanol delivery is not available with any of the rudimentary water-methanol controllers which base their output duty off a single measured parameter (like boost or MAF sensor output).

2. Dual pump outputs which can be used to simultaneously control two independent pumps (each with its own dedicated duty table and its own control scheme). With this, CM5 can be used to drive 2 water meth pumps, one water meth and one fuel pump, or 2 fuel pumps (probably not that common a set-up but the option is there). Again, two pumps off a single controller is something not available with the other pump controllers on the market.

3. Factory VAG PWM controller pass-through circuitry allows the CM5 to handle the current supply role for your aftermarket LPFP which would otherwise overload and overheat your factory PWM. This specialized circuitry allows the ECU + the factory PWM to stay in complete control of the fuel pump. or... you can set the CM5 to "obey" the stock PWM controller all the time or you can set it to "obey" only below some pre-set RPM/boost level above which your user-entered 3D map kicks in and takes over, or you can set up the CM5 to ignore the stock PWM controller completely and program in your own duty values that span the entire RPM/Boost band giving you full control of your car's fueling. You want 100% duty at 900RPM or 50% at 5000RPM? You can do that.

4. Two additional low-power outputs (called General Purpose Outputs 1 and 2) each with its own dedicated 256 cell table that can be used for controlling a boost solenoid, spare fuel injectors, an anti-siphon water methanol solenoid valve, relays, LEDs, lamps, buzzers, etc. These outputs can be configured to put out a variable duty or can be configured to just turn ON/OFF.

There are a bunch of other features that the CM5 provides like PID-based boost control and pump overcurrent and undercurrent detection, but this post is getting too long and too "salesey" to go into those.

@flat_tire: CM5 uses the highest-end components from leading semiconductor companies like Infineon, Texas Instruments and Analog Devices. It's also fully manufactured in North America - from bare Printed Circuit Boards (PCBs), to automated Surface Mount Technology (SMT) assembly to CNC machined housings. I do agree with you 100% that any determined DIYer could do something similar with some discrete parts and an Arduino board. Given enough spare time one could even replace their ME7 with a Raspberry Pi plus some peripheral hardware.

Any CM5-related technical questions, just drop me a line.

Few questions.

Will the new software work on the BM+, or only on the new branded CM5s?

PID boost control isn't very intuitive on the BM+ software. Frankly, i had a hell of a time figuring it out how to make it work at all, and never did achieve the level of control I needed to use it safely. The few other users of this product I knew also couldn't get PID boost control to function properly. In the same breath, using alternative boost control options removes the primary safety feature built into the unit for methanol use. Any tips/advice/help.

The public information regarding the features of this unit is not whats lacking, its the setup/implementation information that's needed.

Just my $.02

 

[mattysachs]

See below re: what can be done safety-wise if the boost control feature is not being used.

 

[ErBall]

In the essay above I forgot to answer your most important question: i.e. what can be done safety-wise if the boost control feature is not being used.

One thing you could do is install a solenoid between your MBC and your waste gate which the CM5's GPO1 or GPO2 will activate (or deactivate depending on what solenoid you use and how you connect the silicone hoses) whenever it determines that the methanol pump has run out of fluid. That will immediately drop your boost to the minimum set by your waste gate spring. There may be other schemes, but this is the first one that comes to mind.

Thats an option I've contemplated, however I'm now using an eboost 2, as it already uses a solenoid I'm unsure how to mix the two systems.

 

[mattysachs]

Based on a quick look at the TurboSmart's e-Boost2 manual there are two wires, Green and Orange that can be used to select one of the 4 possible target boost "set points". If these wires are left unconnected, e-Boost2 uses only the Set Point 1 which I assume is your regular boost setting.

Say you configured its Set Point 2 to be 0 PSI, then whenever the Green wire got connected to Ground, e-Boost2 would ignore your usual boost target and apply its Set Point 2 (i.e. 0 PSI in this case). If 0 PSI is not an option then you would enter a value as low as the e-Boost2 will let you.

Luckily, CM5's (and your BM+'s) GPO1 and GPO2 outputs "pull to ground" when they are active. So all you would have to do, after configuring your Set Point 2 to 0 PSI is to connect the e-Boost2's green wire to the BM+'s GPO 1 or 2.

Without the BM+ even in the loop you can connect the green wire to ground and make sure your e-Boost2 configuration "took" and that it does in fact switch to 0 PSI target when you're connecting the green wire to ground. After that connect the green wire to BM+'s GPO of choice.

If you happen to be already using Set Point 2 for something else then you can look on Page 20 of e-Boost2's manual at the other options on selecting Set Points 3 or 4 by using the orange wire instead of the green wire.

Clearly, all this would need to be tested but it looks like you don't need to mess with extra solenoids, just use the green wire on the e-Boost2 and connect it over to the BM+. I can't see how in the current BM+ SW you would tell the unit to activate a GPO when it detects a pump fault, so waiting for TroqTune which will allow you to do this, may be your only option.

 

[ErBall]

Clearly, all this would need to be tested but it looks like you don't need to mess with extra solenoids, just use the green wire on the e-Boost2 and connect it over to the BM+. I can't see how in the current BM+ SW you would tell the unit to activate a GPO when it detects a pump fault, so waiting for TroqTune which will allow you to do this, may be your only option.

Just so we understand correctly, the setup your otherwise recommending in my situation cannot be done with the existing BM+ software, but you believe the TorqTune software will allow it?

If that is the case please keep us in the loop on that.