MFactory LSD Installed on MKV GTI w/DSG – Review

[rcngmtry]

I finally had the chance to have the MFactory LSD installed, so I just wanted to post some initial impression.

I did not do the installation myself and had it done by Tyrolsport in NY, so I cannot comment on the installation part other than the shop stating that there were no issues during the install and the diff fit just like it was supposed to.
I picked up the car last night and was able do drive it around a little yesterday and some more today. There is only so much you can do on the street, but I was able to get a good sense of what this thing is capable of…

Car:
’06 GTI w/ DSG with fully upgraded suspension, power equivalent to a stage 1 car, and missing about 150-200lbs where it counts. During the LSD install also had the clutch packs replaced for good measure. MFactory unit is a helical LSD.

Normal driving:
Same as before, I would never be able to tell I had one installed if it wasn’t for a bunch of money missing from my wallet… Smooth engagement and completely noise free. At one point I also put one wheel on the snow while the other one was on dry pavement and hit the gas hard. Both wheels spun momentarily, but then the car just went like there was no snow under one of the wheels.

Heavy acceleration out of a corner:
Every time I would accelerate hard on the exit, I kept thinking that something is going to break that’s how hard the car would launch itself no matter where the wheels were pointing. The acceleration is a lot harder now on skinny 215 winter tires in the frigid weather compared to the usual 245 200 TW tires . I can only imagine how it’s going to feel on 255 tires this season. Low speed corners is where it really shines, I can now use the power curve to my advantage and there is no more torque steer. The car keeps puling towards the inside of the corner, so much that I would have to correct the steering angle at first out of sudden unfamiliarity with the car.
Somehow the car also seems a little faster, not sure if it has to do with the refreshed transmission, more grip, or the fact that this diff is supposedly lighter then the others out there (cannot confirm this since I never had any others side by side, but it is manufacturer’s claim and weight savings are achieved by using forged materials). But wherever it is coming from, I’ll take it!

I was only willing to do so much on the street, but I did put this thing through its paces and I am very impressed with what I am seeing so far. It will make a huge difference come autocross season. I will post more impressions once I have real seat time, but so far, only good things.

Please let me know if there are any specific questions and I would be happy to address them.

Lex

 

[zrickety]

Thanks for the review. I will be curious to hear your autox impressions.

 

[07DSG]

That sounds really cool. Didn't know about the MFactory units. Had only heard of Quaife before.

How big of a deal is it to get the clutch packs replaced?

 

[GIACUser]

I finally had the chance to have the MFactory LSD installed, so I just wanted to post some initial impression.

I did not do the installation myself and had it done by Tyrolsport in NY, so I cannot comment on the installation part other than the shop stating that there were no issues during the install and the diff fit just like it was supposed to.
I picked up the car last night and was able do drive it around a little yesterday and some more today. There is only so much you can do on the street, but I was able to get a good sense of what this thing is capable of…

Car:
’06 GTI w/ DSG with fully upgraded suspension, power equivalent to a stage 1 car, and missing about 150-200lbs where it counts. During the LSD install also had the clutch packs replaced for good measure. MFactory unit is a helical LSD.

Normal driving:
Same as before, I would never be able to tell I had one installed if it wasn’t for a bunch of money missing from my wallet… Smooth engagement and completely noise free. At one point I also put one wheel on the snow while the other one was on dry pavement and hit the gas hard. Both wheels spun momentarily, but then the car just went like there was no snow under one of the wheels.

Heavy acceleration out of a corner:
Every time I would accelerate hard on the exit, I kept thinking that something is going to break that’s how hard the car would launch itself no matter where the wheels were pointing. The acceleration is a lot harder now on skinny 215 winter tires in the frigid weather compared to the usual 245 200 TW tires . I can only imagine how it’s going to feel on 255 tires this season. Low speed corners is where it really shines, I can now use the power curve to my advantage and there is no more torque steer. The car keeps puling towards the inside of the corner, so much that I would have to correct the steering angle at first out of sudden unfamiliarity with the car.
Somehow the car also seems a little faster, not sure if it has to do with the refreshed transmission, more grip, or the fact that this diff is supposedly lighter then the others out there (cannot confirm this since I never had any others side by side, but it is manufacturer’s claim and weight savings are achieved by using forged materials). But wherever it is coming from, I’ll take it!

I was only willing to do so much on the street, but I did put this thing through its paces and I am very impressed with what I am seeing so far. It will make a huge difference come autocross season. I will post more impressions once I have real seat time, but so far, only good things.

Please let me know if there are any specific questions and I would be happy to address them.

Lex

Great post, I have an MFactory sitting on the bench, need to get it installed.

When they pulled your old clutch packs out were they really in need of replacement? Did they comment on the condition of them and how many miles? I am probably going to do the same thing and just put the clutch packs in while the trans is out.

 

[rcngmtry]

07DSG,
I can't acurrately comment on the clutch pack install since I didn't do this myself. But looking at the actual unit, it doesn't look to be that much different compared to what is used in conventional automatics, so I would say the replacement can't be that complicated. As an early adopter of the DSG transmission I am still plagued by the rumors of its complexity, so I don't touch it

GIACuser,
I still have all of the old parts in the box and I will be going to the shop to work on the car later today. I'll examine the clutches and provide you with an update.

Lex

 

[GIACUser]

07DSG,
I can't acurrately comment on the clutch pack install since I didn't do this myself. But looking at the actual unit, it doesn't look to be that much different compared to what is used in conventional automatics, so I would say the replacement can't be that complicated. As an early adopter of the DSG transmission I am still plagued by the rumors of its complexity, so I don't touch it

GIACuser,
I still have all of the old parts in the box and I will be going to the shop to work on the car later today. I'll examine the clutches and provide you with an update.

Lex

Hey, thanks that would be fantastic. As for installing them it makes sense since the trans has to be removed and opened up probably best to replace wear parts. Unfortunately those clutch packs are 825.00 bucks all by themselves.

 

[Das Gespenst]

In the process of rebuilding my motor and will be rebuilding my DSG as well, 156K on the original clutch packs. Now trying to decide OEM or upgrade, they are just sooooo damn expensive! I will get pics and description of the old parts up when I can get to it

 

[alemagno]

Nice to see that the number of LSD equipped GTIs is growing! Since LSD install in September of last year the car makes much more fun to drive. I only could test it in two autocross events where in the first one my lower ball joint moved (slots are not good) and the car behaved erratically but in the second event I could see some real benefits. I am not sure yet if I did use it to its full potential since it takes time to adapt to how much quicker and harder you can accelerate out of corners.

I went the Wavetrac path and I wold be interested to see how much it differs from the MFactory LSD. Unfortunately it is very difficult to receive any real hard numbers in terms of bias ratio between different torsen based LSDs. I noticed in special circumstances, e.g. one wheel on ice, that I hear some clicking noises and I was wondering if this was a situation where the wave surfaces of the Wavetrac were climbing on each other to create some internal load to overcome the "zero" load condition for the wheel on ice? Of course, this is just a speculation. I also still do not understand where the force really comes from for the wave surfaces to climb on each other. I do know though from early Audi Quattro owners that a "zero" load in winter is a real event. This is why they had a manually lockable rear differential.

In terms of claims in weight reduction and strength for forged versus machined LSDs from rounds. There is so much complexity to it that it is really difficult to make clear cut statements about it. In any case a comparison would need to start with the grade of steel used and without this it is very mute point. I am not a metallurgist but I am pretty sure there will be alloys which can't be forged but have higher tensile strength to start with. The other question is which parts of the LSD are really forged? Is it just an outer shell piece which is the same for most LSDs offered by the same brand for different cars and using the same die for forging is mainly an approach to reduce manufacturing costs (forging should be cheaper in higher volume)? Unfortunately all those companies try to sell us their stuff (wave plates, forging, cryo treatment,...) as the best and greatest and we might never know what really matters.

 

[gti2slow]

Is the MFactory a helical or clutch style LSD?

 

[GIACUser]

Is the MFactory a helical or clutch style LSD?

Helical

 

[rcngmtry]

Hey, thanks that would be fantastic. As for installing them it makes sense since the trans has to be removed and opened up probably best to replace wear parts. Unfortunately those clutch packs are 825.00 bucks all by themselves.

Hey, as promised I took the clutch pack apart to examine the condition. The results may surprise you, they surprised me. It looked almost brand new... The wear was very minimal. Car has 136K miles and I had the car since 10K. It was daily driven for a while (it was not babied) and became an autocross specific car in the past two years with 50+ events completed. Also, I only changed the DSG fluid once at like 85K.
I probably didn't have to change the pack, but I don't plan on having the transmission out again anytime soon. The pack is expensive, but without knowing the state of it ahead of time, I am glad I got it replaced. It's 589 on vwparts department.
Here are some pictures:

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upload gif

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post image

 

[MFactory]

Nice to see that the number of LSD equipped GTIs is growing! Since LSD install in September of last year the car makes much more fun to drive. I only could test it in two autocross events where in the first one my lower ball joint moved (slots are not good) and the car behaved erratically but in the second event I could see some real benefits. I am not sure yet if I did use it to its full potential since it takes time to adapt to how much quicker and harder you can accelerate out of corners.

I went the Wavetrac path and I wold be interested to see how much it differs from the MFactory LSD. Unfortunately it is very difficult to receive any real hard numbers in terms of bias ratio between different torsen based LSDs. I noticed in special circumstances, e.g. one wheel on ice, that I hear some clicking noises and I was wondering if this was a situation where the wave surfaces of the Wavetrac were climbing on each other to create some internal load to overcome the "zero" load condition for the wheel on ice? Of course, this is just a speculation. I also still do not understand where the force really comes from for the wave surfaces to climb on each other. I do know though from early Audi Quattro owners that a "zero" load in winter is a real event. This is why they had a manually lockable rear differential.

In terms of claims in weight reduction and strength for forged versus machined LSDs from rounds. There is so much complexity to it that it is really difficult to make clear cut statements about it. In any case a comparison would need to start with the grade of steel used and without this it is very mute point. I am not a metallurgist but I am pretty sure there will be alloys which can't be forged but have higher tensile strength to start with. The other question is which parts of the LSD are really forged? Is it just an outer shell piece which is the same for most LSDs offered by the same brand for different cars and using the same die for forging is mainly an approach to reduce manufacturing costs (forging should be cheaper in higher volume)? Unfortunately all those companies try to sell us their stuff (wave plates, forging, cryo treatment,...) as the best and greatest and we might never know what really matters.

Manufacturing processes are always going to be open to arguments and counter-arguments so, as I've learned over the years, it can get futile at times to try explain the differences; each have their own proponents.

However, one thing that I can guarantee about the Forging process is that once tooling has been paid for, the "cost per unit" is significantly less than that of a milled unit. With a forged unit, after machining etc, you are receiving around 90% of the material that you paid for, with the rest being waste. With a milled unit, you are only receiving around 50% of the material that you paid for. Again, the rest being waste, but you still paid for that waste. Being that the MFactory units are 100% forged, the savings are passed down to the consumer.

This, besides "brand name tax" is the most significant reason why our forged units cost less to purchase for the end user. Any perceived advantages from the manufacturing process is just a bonus and, as mentioned above, subject to debate.

Our main selling point has never been about the manufacturing process or "special features" of our LSD though; that honour goes to "Value for Money":

- Receiving what you paid for, without the "brand name tax"
- Lifetime, Transferable Warranty
- 30day Money Back Guarantee

 

[lippyjump]

MFactory- Any ETA on your racing axles?

 

[GIACUser]

Hey, as promised I took the clutch pack apart to examine the condition. The results may surprise you, they surprised me. It looked almost brand new... The wear was very minimal. Car has 136K miles and I had the car since 10K. It was daily driven for a while (it was not babied) and became an autocross specific car in the past two years with 50+ events completed. Also, I only changed the DSG fluid once at like 85K.
I probably didn't have to change the pack, but I don't plan on having the transmission out again anytime soon. The pack is expensive, but without knowing the state of it ahead of time, I am glad I got it replaced. It's 589 on vwparts department.

Great pics and thanks for sharing. This is VERY helpful. They do look to be in very good condition. This consistent with posts I have read over the years about the durability of the stock clutch packs.

Based on the last dyno while running new more aggressive tune from DM my tranny is likely slipping. I was wondering about the likelyhood of the clutch packs being worn or whether I need a stronger DSG tune with greater clamping force. So I am going to try and find a DSG tune that offers more clamping force than the GIAC tune I am using since my car only has 63K miles on it. GIAC only made a basic tune for my model trans so there is no upgrade path. Time to see if I can get a DM DSG tune which will end my username as GIACUser. I will have to start a new account.

Thanks again for posting those pics.

 

[zrickety]

GIACuser, have you done the DSG adaptation?