aloha_from_bradley
Autocross Champion
- Location
- AZ
After a ton of research, I agree. KW's engineers know a thing or two about how to tune a damper.
I went with the KW V1 kit and DCC cancellers.
Thanks
7
KW Suspension
- Thread starter aloha_from_bradley
- Start date
After a ton of research, I agree. KW's engineers know a thing or two about how to tune a damper.
I went with the KW V1 kit and DCC cancellers.
Thanks
Al_in_Philly
Autocross Newbie
- Location
- Philadelphia USA
FWIW (and my apologies to those of you who already know all of this), spring rates need to go up when suspension travel decreases, just in order to resist bottoming out. A 25% reduction in travel then requires a 25% increase in the spring rate just to equal the force which the spring is placing against the wheel at full compression. On a race track, cars create higher compression forces on the outer wheels than on the street, necessitating even higher spring rates than those required to compensate for reduced suspension travel with a coil-over setup. This also goes for the front rates during braking, in order to mitigate dive. So, seemingly ridiculously high spring rates sometimes are just what the doctor ordered, especially if the car is being set up exclusively for the track.
One should also remember that the car's torsional rigidity also comes into play with higher spring rates as the chassis (subframe and body) will flex more when the spring rates increase. The Mk7/7.5 front subframe is stamped steel and exhibits some flex during high loads--enough to be noticeable. This has been changed to a more solid, cast aluminum, subframe for the Mk8 R, which, along with the new rear differential, are likely the two key factors behind the raves about the Mk8 R's enhanced handling. So, if you go for new coil-overs with particularly high spring rates, some chassis strengthening should be on the to-do list, as well.
One should also remember that the car's torsional rigidity also comes into play with higher spring rates as the chassis (subframe and body) will flex more when the spring rates increase. The Mk7/7.5 front subframe is stamped steel and exhibits some flex during high loads--enough to be noticeable. This has been changed to a more solid, cast aluminum, subframe for the Mk8 R, which, along with the new rear differential, are likely the two key factors behind the raves about the Mk8 R's enhanced handling. So, if you go for new coil-overs with particularly high spring rates, some chassis strengthening should be on the to-do list, as well.
Al_in_Philly
Autocross Newbie
- Location
- Philadelphia USA
Best of luck with the new set-up. Let us know how they work out for you!
aloha_from_bradley
Autocross Champion
- Location
- AZ
Sitting at the dealership waiting on the alignment as I type this response.
Initial impressions were very good. Ride is firm as to be expected, but the overall experience on the first drive was the noticeable increase of damper quality over the stock DCC struts with lowering springs. A lot less bouncy, much smoother riding, and a lot less overall feedback from road imperfections and separation joins in the pavement. The steering input feels better, almost smoother. The car tracks a bit differently as well, feels more direct.
I'll see how things are after the alignment is complete. So far so good!
Al_in_Philly
Autocross Newbie
- Location
- Philadelphia USA
Have fun!
aloha_from_bradley
Autocross Champion
- Location
- AZ
I figured pictures or it didn't happen.
Attachments
-
1.jpg -
2.jpg -
3.jpg -
4.jpg -
5.jpg -
6.jpg
Looks solid! I’m watching this thread because I have 2017 R stock DCC on Eibach Pro springs. I am currently thinking of B6-DCC/Eibach springs combo. What are your thoughts?
aloha_from_bradley
Autocross Champion
- Location
- AZ
I guess it just depends on what your goals are. The B6 dampers weren’t designed for a lowering spring, and technically, Bilstein will void your warranty if they find out you’re running a lowering spring. I’ve spoken with them about it. Not that they will ever know, and if you ever needed to send a strut in for warranty work it’s not like the spring will be on it.
If you want to go any lower, you won’t be. I didn’t love the ride height with the Eibachs. Too high in the rear for me. I’m not a huge fan of forward rake. I’m more of an even ride height kind of guy. I’m sure the combo of B6 and Eibachs would perform great, and you would be able to keep the DCC. So there are some benefits to the setup. But a full setup where the spring and damper were designed to be used together would produce the best results imo. The valving and spring rates on full coilover kits from KW / Bilstein are engineered to work together.
The ride quality of the KW system is fantastic. It’s soft and smooth with regular driving but firm when needed, mostly due to the progressive springs. The spring rates are also a bit lower than the more aggressive kits. The B8s were designed for a lowering spring, but you lose the DCC. Or you can go with the KW DDC or Bilstein Damptronic kits which retain the DCC, but cost a fortune. There really aren’t many options for DCC cars unless you delete the DCC entirely.
My advice would be to go with a kit that was fully designed for the car, or go with a strut that was meant for a lowering spring. It will yield the best results in the end, and will also last the longest.
My goals are-to not go any lower than I am now with the Eibach pro springs, improve damping performance--make the car more 'planted', decrease crashiness. Currently, Normal mode is what I feel is best--Race is not terrible, but a bit too firm feeling sometimesfor everyday street driving. My cxar is approx 60k miles. Glad the KW's have worked out-also good to know they ride nicely. It would be good to update us after living with them for a while. I'm definitely looking at them closer now.
aloha_from_bradley
Autocross Champion
- Location
- AZ
IMO, Race mode on the stock DCC dampers equipped with lowering springs most accurately match the damper to the higher spring rate. That's why the ride is so much better in Race, but then you have have to deal with the overly stiff ride over bumps and uneven pavement.
The first thing I noticed with the KWs was the increase in damper quality. The bounciness and crashiness is basically gone. The only thing that transmits any kind of harsh feedback into the car are sharp small bumps and large separation joints when driving on freeway interchanges etc. Otherwise they feel much more premium, and the ride quality is light years ahead of the lowering spring setup.
I'd recommend going with the KW DDC kit if you have the coin. They have a revised spring that solved the issues people were having early on, and you get the keep the DCC. I was going to pull the trigger on them until KW quoted me 14 weeks till I would see a set due to the holiday's combined with shortages and supply chain issues due to Covid. I decided to go with the V1s instead, and although it wasn't a bad choice, the DDC kit really would have been the best solution for a street driven car.
ECNMY R
Drag Race Newbie
- Location
- California
- Car(s)
- R, RS3, GTS 4.0
Car looks great, thanks for your feedback on the KWs.
Had you re-adapted your DCC with the Eibachs? I absolutely love the ride on these things (except Comfort, which is underdamped) but have considered coilovers to go lower one day.
Had you re-adapted your DCC with the Eibachs? I absolutely love the ride on these things (except Comfort, which is underdamped) but have considered coilovers to go lower one day.
I performed (I think) the OBD11 “Adaptating with deflected wheels”. The process via OBD11 was a bit janky, but I notice what I believe is a slight improvement in the rear suss with a bit more compliance and better feedback-all could be BS tho lol. The before and after %- numbers did change tho, so I guess something happened.
I’m located in the UK and I had the same dilemma whether to delete my DCC and go for a passive kit.
I use my car on track, as a daily therefore needed the best kit for the job.
My car also has Racingline Progressive Springs and 034 rear ARB and a Superpro Caster / Camber Bush kit.
I’ve had this set up since the car was 6 months old in 2016. I tend to run MPS Cup 2’s for odd track days and MPS4S in 19’s on its usualVW Pret wheels.
The car is tuned to APR’s Stage 2 and punches well above its weight on track even with this set up. But like you it’s a minefield getting an upgraded kit that’s both comfy for the road but an upgraded package for circuit use. I had heard from feedback that the Bilstein B16 Damptronic kits were just too basic in their damping ability and not comfy in their softest setting. They’re not rebound or compression adjustable either. I’ve run KW Clubsports which are excellent but need constant Geo changes in the workshop / tuner between road and track as they have adjustable camber plates. I’m not interested in this as a predominately road car tbh.
So I’m going Ohlins Road and Track as they’re are supremely comfy yet brilliant on track.
Getting these fitted mid January so will report back
FWIW the b16 damptronics are rebound adjustable within the limits of your DCC controller. But the springs are certainly not suited for track use and I don't know if you can even get their electronic shocks revalved for linear springs.
I've been looking and Ohlins really seems like the sweet spot on the market. Custom valving, lightweight aluminum dampers with an inverted monotube and available with springs <$3k. Everything else is very street-oriented, up in the $3400+ range, or uses budget shock bodies. Only downside is the maintenance costs on Ohlins.