TSI K04 vs damn quick SRT-4 Neon

[g60_corrado_91]

I was talking about your run against Cody and got u mixed up with a mk6 guy. I cleared it up with him though.

The Golf R? Yeah, I heard about that.

 

[i hug trees]

no, not that one


lol


i ran into a UNI stage 2+ GLI here and it fucking smacked my car. this was after i left chicago matt

 

[socalhatch]

I'd personally avoid Revo with KO4. And from what I've seen, APR tunes spike boost really high. eurocars rode in my car late last year and he previously had APR tuning with the KO4 and he thought that my car pulled harder than his did with APR tuning.

The thing with Unitronic is they tend to boost the least. Normally, it'll peak at 23-24. The highest I've seen was 26-26.5, but that was a 20 degree day. They still make good power though, just less torque and it's much smoother than the APR Stg 2 that I had for 4 years. I actually switched to Unitronic Stg 2 with the stock turbo and that was the same smoothness. From my experience, APR tends to have a large torque spike which is awesome at first, but then it gets wheezy up top. I'd rather sacrifice 20-30 peak foot pounds of torque and have more horsepower up top, and that's what Unitronic does.

Mind you, it's still enough to break 205/55/16 winter tires with lots of tread on them in the dry (salt on the roads) in 3rd gear with the cold weather. Couldn't even imagine 300+wtq. My guess is without a slipping clutch, my car would be ~285-290whp and 275-280wtq based on a car that dyno'd with very similar mods to mine (his screen name is volkswagen85). That's a Mustang dyno too. I don't use high reading dyno's. I'd rather have a "low" dyno number and pull on a car making 300whp+ on a dynojet and then have them confused.

Back to your original question, GIAC has that torque spike as well, but it pulls hard up top too. That's based on my buddies old GLI which was the heaviest GLI you could get. Pkg 2 with leather, bag setup, heavy wheels, DSG. It was probably a 3400lb car lol. I felt his car was too powerful for the stock rods. It's not the hp that kills rods, it's torque. And I want to say it made 300wtq with the W/M.



I'm not sure who you're talking about. What car was the GLI running against? It wasn't me. And I answered my estimated dyno numbers. I've got to get this clutch ordered!

What's wrong with revo k04 ? My car runs just fine

 

[g60_corrado_91]

no, not that one


lol


i ran into a UNI stage 2+ GLI here and it fucking smacked my car. this was after i left chicago matt

Hahahaha, you never told me about that! We should've run.

 

[vegasGTI]

So do you guise think a GIAC k04 tune might be risky on a motor with 120k miles on it?

I like the idea of leaving APR for a tune that will be more flexible regarding intakes and fuel quality but I don't want my well-seasoned, well-flogged motor to pop anytime soon. I need a safe, reliable tune more than I need maximum speed. Would REVO or Unitronic be safer for my application?

The only time I have heard of people bending rods was doing multiple launch controls on race file. They all limit torque down low where that instant hit tends to bend things so since they delay the torque spike it shouldn't really be an issue. You car should be perfectly fine. Think about it too how many people have you heard about bending rods compared to the amount of us running ko4 and bt upgrades daily. On top of that many people track their cars no problems. Loucufur flogged his car on race file for at least a full year before we installed rods on his car. He had no proboems and came in like second in his class if i remember. I have seen more dogbone mounts bend then rods around here lol. Btw jic you didnt see them from my original post from my ko4 install here are my ko4 logs
http://golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=173943

I'd personally avoid Revo with KO4. And from what I've seen, APR tunes spike boost really high. eurocars rode in my car late last year and he previously had APR tuning with the KO4 and he thought that my car pulled harder than his did with APR tuning.

The thing with Unitronic is they tend to boost the least. Normally, it'll peak at 23-24. The highest I've seen was 26-26.5, but that was a 20 degree day. They still make good power though, just less torque and it's much smoother than the APR Stg 2 that I had for 4 years. I actually switched to Unitronic Stg 2 with the stock turbo and that was the same smoothness. From my experience, APR tends to have a large torque spike which is awesome at first, but then it gets wheezy up top. I'd rather sacrifice 20-30 peak foot pounds of torque and have more horsepower up top, and that's what Unitronic does.

Mind you, it's still enough to break 205/55/16 winter tires with lots of tread on them in the dry (salt on the roads) in 3rd gear with the cold weather. Couldn't even imagine 300+wtq. My guess is without a slipping clutch, my car would be ~285-290whp and 275-280wtq based on a car that dyno'd with very similar mods to mine (his screen name is volkswagen85). That's a Mustang dyno too. I don't use high reading dyno's. I'd rather have a "low" dyno number and pull on a car making 300whp+ on a dynojet and then have them confused.

Back to your original question, GIAC has that torque spike as well, but it pulls hard up top too. That's based on my buddies old GLI which was the heaviest GLI you could get. Pkg 2 with leather, bag setup, heavy wheels, DSG. It was probably a 3400lb car lol. I felt his car was too powerful for the stock rods. It's not the hp that kills rods, it's torque. And I want to say it made 300wtq with the W/M.



I'm not sure who you're talking about. What car was the GLI running against? It wasn't me. And I answered my estimated dyno numbers. I've got to get this clutch ordered!

Again all the tuners limit torque down low and unless your constantly using your launch control your rods should be fine. GIAC also spikes sooner in the range and tapers down vs apr building to redline as you stated. Thats why apr gets wheezy like you stated up top as it starts getting closer to the edge or out of the compressor efficiency range The power delivery is just different because of this but they both produce good numbers. Also remember boost is not the only thing to make power. My timing advances to around 6deg at redline with giac. I see a 26 psI spike sometime for a split sec then tapers down to 23-24ish and im at about 19psi by redline. I prefer how GIAC tune the spike sooner staying more in the compressor efficiency range rather then pushing more hotter air up top at a higher rpm, and as you commented the GIAC car pulls hard.
The GIAC file is just super dialed in they spent a ton of time developing it. Plus it seems to run a little richer then apr which I prefer for safety reasons.

Edit: btw with revo you would probably have to change to rs4 injectors. Aslo because they tune different, even though giac has more torque, they could also be producing lower egts ect.

 

[Red5pade]

The only time I have heard of people bending rods was doing multiple launch controls on race file. They all limit torque down low where that instant hit tends to bend things so since they delay the torque spike it shouldn't really be an issue. You car should be perfectly fine. Think about it too how many people have you heard about bending rods compared to the amount of us running ko4 and bt upgrades daily. On top of that many people track their cars no problems. Loucufur flogged his car on race file for at least a full year before we installed rods on his car. He had no proboems and came in like second in his class if i remember. I have seen more dogbone mounts bend then rods around here lol. Btw jic you didnt see them from my original post from my ko4 install here are my ko4 logs
http://golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=173943

Again all the tuners limit torque down low and unless your constantly using your launch control your rods should be fine. GIAC also spikes sooner in the range and tapers down vs apr building to redline as you stated. Thats why apr gets wheezy like you stated up top as it starts getting closer to the edge or out of the compressor efficiency range The power delivery is just different because of this but they both produce good numbers. Also remember boost is not the only thing to make power. My timing advances to around 6deg at redline with giac. I see a 26 psI spike sometime for a split sec then tapers down to 23-24ish and im at about 19psi by redline. I prefer how GIAC tune the spike sooner staying more in the compressor efficiency range rather then pushing more hotter air up top at a higher rpm, and as you commented the GIAC car pulls hard.
The GIAC file is just super dialed in they spent a ton of time developing it. Plus it seems to run a little richer then apr which I prefer for safety reasons.

Edit: btw with revo you would probably have to change to rs4 injectors. Aslo because they tune different, even though giac has more torque, they could also be producing lower egts ect.

giac produces hotter egts than apr does in the higher rpm range. im with you though, i would rather have that torque. especially if its rod safe.

 

[Bunnspeed]

Good info, gents. Thanks as always.

 

[vegasGTI]

giac produces hotter egts than apr does in the higher rpm range. im with you though, i would rather have that torque. especially if its rod safe.

Thanks never compared the two egt wise ect.

 

[g60_corrado_91]

The only time I have heard of people bending rods was doing multiple launch controls on race file. They all limit torque down low where that instant hit tends to bend things so since they delay the torque spike it shouldn't really be an issue. You car should be perfectly fine. Think about it too how many people have you heard about bending rods compared to the amount of us running ko4 and bt upgrades daily. On top of that many people track their cars no problems. Loucufur flogged his car on race file for at least a full year before we installed rods on his car. He had no proboems and came in like second in his class if i remember. I have seen more dogbone mounts bend then rods around here lol. Btw jic you didnt see them from my original post from my ko4 install here are my ko4 logs
http://golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=173943

Again all the tuners limit torque down low and unless your constantly using your launch control your rods should be fine. GIAC also spikes sooner in the range and tapers down vs apr building to redline as you stated. Thats why apr gets wheezy like you stated up top as it starts getting closer to the edge or out of the compressor efficiency range The power delivery is just different because of this but they both produce good numbers. Also remember boost is not the only thing to make power. My timing advances to around 6deg at redline with giac. I see a 26 psI spike sometime for a split sec then tapers down to 23-24ish and im at about 19psi by redline. I prefer how GIAC tune the spike sooner staying more in the compressor efficiency range rather then pushing more hotter air up top at a higher rpm, and as you commented the GIAC car pulls hard.
The GIAC file is just super dialed in they spent a ton of time developing it. Plus it seems to run a little richer then apr which I prefer for safety reasons.

Edit: btw with revo you would probably have to change to rs4 injectors. Aslo because they tune different, even though giac has more torque, they could also be producing lower egts ect.

Yeah, I should figure out where my timing is at with Unitronic. I know my car holds about 18.5psi at 6500-7k.

And the thing I don't really like with the Revo tuning is that it does require RS4 injectors. Though who knows. Now tuners are starting to find that the stock injectors work with "small" big turbos or frankenturbos...

 

[Bunnspeed]

Pretty sure I read that Revo also has maps for S3 injectors, but that might just be my imagination running wild.

 

[g60_corrado_91]

Pretty sure I read that Revo also has maps for S3 injectors, but that might just be my imagination running wild.

They very well could. Maybe I'm basing my opinion on Revo with my buddies Unitronic FSI KO4 6mt GTI pulling pretty hard on a DSG equipped MkV GTI with Revo KO4 (FSI as well). Maybe the Revo car was having tuning issues, but I know he was pretty irritated. My car has very similar mods to the Unitronic GTI I mention.

 

[Bunnspeed]

Thanks for the info. What's the cost of the uni k04 tune, and does it pass a Cali/ MA obd2 inspection? Is the uni tune pretty adaptable to fuel quality and new mods?

 

[07GTI-2.0T]

Pretty sure I read that Revo also has maps for S3 injectors, but that might just be my imagination running wild.

They do.

Question is APR's tune still $299 if you buy their hardware (turbo) or is tune upgrade free if you buy their hardware and $299 if you source your own hardware? :threadjacked: again

 

[Bunnspeed]

They do.

Question is APR's tune still $299 if you buy their hardware (turbo) or is tune upgrade free if you buy their hardware and $299 if you source your own hardware? :threadjacked: again

My APR k04 upgrade tune was $300 (actually the shop only charged me $250 because I was a friend of a friend of the owner). They never asked where I sourced the turbo. Pretty sure you have to pay for the tune whether or not you buy the turbo from APR, but I'm not 100% certain. I seem to remember their website's a la cart pricing to be higher with the tune than for just the hardware.

 

[volkswagen85]

Unitronic ko4 is the shit!!!