Hawtorne, Ca Police Kill Dog

[razr390]

As people have stated there are things both parties could of done to prevent it.

Of course! I have said that as well, but remember, those who wear the badge are considered above average citizens in what they are expected to provide to the communities they serve in.

Some of these traits include:

1. Cooler heads compared to the average citizen in situations that would raise tempers.
2. Mature AND professional reactions based on what is going on in a situation.
3. Knowledge of the law through and through.

These cops in the video, especially the ones who handcuffed the man failed to show these traits.

A man can be acting crazy and saying smack to an officer, but an officer is never expected to stoop to his level and talk smack back to the person.

 

[mk6medic]

I just watched this a few times with a few people, and we all believe the Officer acted appropriately in shooting the dog as the dog was attacking.

Let me give you another perspective.

The dog owner was shouting things at the officers, no doubt in an attempt to do more than just grab their attention. You can hear him saying things like white cops, no black cops and civil rights violation. It appears as though at least once the officers tried to warn him or something along those lines. Owner places his dog in car, then walks towards approaching officers, saying who knows what.

Naturally, the officers detain the man because of his behavior. Placing someone in cuffs does NOT mean arrrest, but rather detaining. They search him, and of course the dog wants to protect his owner, that is instinct. The officer puts his hand out and attempts to grab the leash of the dog, not entice it. Since the officer is a stranger and his owner is in trouble, the dog reacts instinctively and attacks. Officer reacts to preserve his well being and uses the first thing to achieve this which happens to be his gun, and shoots.

Humans and dogs both have similar instincts. Protect yourself and those you love. Both the dog and the officer did just that. Dog was going to bite, officer had a gun. Is it unfortunate that this happened? Absolutely. But I believe the officer had every right to protect himself from an attacking dog. If he doesn't, dog grabs a hold of him and doesn't let go until when? He gets shot by another officer??

Police officers deal with scum every day, and are trained to always be ready for the unexpected. They were right to detain (again, not arrested - that does not happen until miranda is given) the dog owner and act to protect themselves.

Yes, I have training in law enforcement. I also get to see the bullshit scenes officers have to deal with and the potential for a calm situation to turn into a cluster as I work alongside them often.

Of course the owner will sue, and of course he will win. We live in a ridiculously litigious crazy society. People sue because their fucking coffee is too hot and they burn themselves and win.

It is hard to see it the officers way unless you've been there or experienced something similar.

 

[colslaw87]

It looks like the dog was only going to bite when the officers kept reaching towards the dog. After the owner tells the dog to stop, you can see the dog back down. Once that 3rd officer came to the scene, charging the dog with his gun drawn, the dog reacted aggressively again.

Knowing that a dog might be acting in defense of his owner, even after the dog backs away ... why on earth would you crowd the dog in an aggressive posture and keep reaching for the leash?

 

[mk6medic]

Of course! I have said that as well, but remember, those who wear the badge are considered above average citizens in what they are expected to provide to the communities they serve in.

Some of these traits include:

1. Cooler heads compared to the average citizen in situations that would raise tempers.
2. Mature AND professional reactions based on what is going on in a situation.
3. Knowledge of the law through and through.

These cops in the video, especially the ones who handcuffed the man failed to show these traits.

A man can be acting crazy and saying smack to an officer, but an officer is never expected to stoop to his level and talk smack back to the person.

1. When did the officers lose their cool and shout back or act immaturely?? THey merely did what they are allowed to do by law, DETAIN someone for a reason we are not aware of.

2. Again, they acted mature in detaining the subject, and attempting to grab the leash of the dog. Looks professional and legit to me.

3. They obviously do know the law well enough to detain an unruly citizen and search him to make sure he does not have a concealed weapon since he was provoking them. People can flip at a moments notice.

When did the officer talk smack? Seems to me they probably told the dog owner to leave stop filming and when he started shouting ridiculous accusations based on race, they realized they had a possible threat and detained it. They looked calm the entire time. Assertive yes. But also calm.

 

[mk6medic]

It looks like the dog was only going to bite when the officers kept reaching towards the dog. After the owner tells the dog to stop, you can see the dog back down. Once that 3rd officer came to the scene, charging the dog with his gun drawn, the dog reacted aggressively again.

Knowing that a dog might be acting in defense of his owner, even after the dog backs away ... why on earth would you crowd the dog in an aggressive posture and keep reaching for the leash?

So you are saying the officers should let an unrestrained dog continue to roam free after exhibiting aggressive behavior?

 

[razr390]

The third officer had no reason to be there, and I believe he only made the situation worse. Watch the video I linked just recently about the owner's account of how it happened. The other two detaining officers had backed away from the dog as soon as they saw the dog was backing away.

Remember, a dog trained to protect his owner is also a dog trained to listen to his owner.

The cops severely overreacted in this situation, and I would NEVER, as a cop pull a gun on a dog. If he is distracted by multiple cops there are so many non-lethal ways to deter the dog.

Remember, it is a way of handling it that says the officers must first try to deter the dog, a SINGLE warning shot would have the dog back up, a single hit would have had the dog in pain, and then possibly it surviving.

Again, the detaining officers should have never left their posts as it was important for the house they were monitoring (since they had submachine guns on them). There should have been an officer at the beginning of the barricade (by the two squad cars) to deal with the man verbally. Shouting from 50 feet away on either party is stupid anyways.

The dog was exhibiting defensive behavior, not aggressive. The dog only lunged because he was ENTICED to lunge. Watch the video a couple more times.

 

[miguelr]

Nice, local to me.
Another reason why I hate police. Fuck that guy.

 

[colslaw87]

I think the LEO's acted poorly in my opinion.

Dog jumps out to defend owner.
3:10 - the owner tells the dog to back down. You can clearly see the dogs posture relax ... while not aggressive, he's still alerted.
3:12 to 3:21 - the dog is not acting aggressive towards LEO's, but merely curious at the situation.
3:22 - the 3rd LEO keeps reaching and advancing towards the dog, boxing him out ... HUGE mistake when your dealing with an already alerted animal.

Why after seeing the dog relax and sniff around would that be your first priority. The dog did not lunge at the LEO's until that 3rd officer started to block him out and keep reaching.

 

[razr390]

3. They obviously do know the law well enough to detain an unruly citizen and search him to make sure he does not have a concealed weapon since he was provoking them. People can flip at a moments notice.

Disagree with this because it makes it look like you agree with random stop and frisks.



Okay, so let's say the other two officers handled the situation maturely, which the owner says they did. The owner did not resist being detained and the officers saw the dog. Owner said: "Max, no", and the dog complied, officers take owner away slowly and the dog barks, then an officer comes out of nowhere, of course that is going to scare/entice the dog more than if he would not have come. The poor judgement comes in the 3rd officer's choice to go into the situation and fatally shoot the dog. ALSO, there were two officers detaining the man, at the point where he was handcuffed, why couldn't they handle the situation? At least ONE of them? with the dog? Exactly. They probably would have but some guy thought he was being a hero. No. The 3rd cop entirely provoked the dog.

I think the LEO's acted poorly in my opinion.

Dog jumps out to defend owner.
3:10 - the owner tells the dog to back down. You can clearly see the dogs posture relax ... while not aggressive, he's still alerted.
3:12 to 3:21 - the dog is not acting aggressive towards LEO's, but merely curious at the situation.
3:22 - the 3rd LEO keeps reaching and advancing towards the dog, boxing him out ... HUGE mistake when your dealing with an already alerted animal.

Why after seeing the dog relax and sniff around would that be your first priority. The dog did not lunge at the LEO's until that 3rd officer started to block him out and keep reaching.

Agree 100%

 

[artur1292]

I watched this video again carefully. I do agree with the cops detaining the guy. You can hear him shout stuff at them being a complete duch. the officers detain him to keep the situation under control and what not and the dog acts to protect his owner. The guy tells the dog no and you clearly see the dog back down just staying alert in case the cops try to hurt him or his owner. That is when that stupid third officer kept provoking the dog and the dog just acted in instinct and attacked. Both were wrong in this case but the LEO's see the dog is obeying it's owner and had they just let the guy go and told him to leave with his dog all this could have been avoided.

 

[razr390]

I watched this video again carefully. I do agree with the cops detaining the guy. You can hear him shout stuff at them being a complete duch. the officers detain him to keep the situation under control and what not and the dog acts to protect his owner. The guy tells the dog no and you clearly see the dog back down just staying alert in case the cops try to hurt him or his owner. That is when that stupid third officer kept provoking the dog and the dog just acted in instinct and attacked. Both were wrong in this case but the LEO's see the dog is obeying it's owner and had they just let the guy go and told him to leave with his dog all this could have been avoided.

Even if he had to be detained for acting like an idiot, let him talk to the dog and calm him down, EVEN WITH HANDCUFFS ON. Damn, if the dog was that loyal they could have let the man talk to the dog while they called Animal Control and taken the dog to the pound while the owner was taken to jail.

They could have
they should have

and in the end they chose the action with the poorest judgement out of them all. That's my beef with the LEO's (specifically the third one) in this situation.

 

[mk6medic]

It is easy to second guess the Police whenever they do anything. You cannot armchair quarterback situations with violence involved. Split second decisions. Instinct is on survival, not to warn. None of you can say you would not act in a similar way until it happens. We all would like to believe we would not do anything like this, but you cannot be sure until it actually happens. I'm sure that officer did not think, 'hey, I'm going to shoot a dog if it acts any way aggressive towards me' at the beginning of that situation.

You can interpret this situation a hundred different ways, and everyone would believe they are right.

Just throwing a blanket 'fuck the police' statement is so ignorant of the danger they face every day. Danger that would have most people pissing their pants. They have no idea what anyone, or animal in this case, is capable of at any time. They act on instinct just as much as dogs do, no matter the training. Self preservation is the biggest animal instinct. Officer acted in such a manner to preserve his own life.

Of course this will be studied and discussed ad nauseum. Simple fact remains, none of us were there, we have no idea what the situation felt like or called for. Watching is shit. FEELING it is completely different, and is why reactions like this happen. I'm sure it was a tense situation.

Could it have gone differently? Of course it COULD have, on both sides. But it did not. Blaming an officer for acting in a manner that he felt was right to protect his own life is ludicrous. We all would act accordingly if we felt our life was threatened. That is all he is guilty of.

 

[mk6medic]

I think the LEO's acted poorly in my opinion.

Dog jumps out to defend owner.
3:10 - the owner tells the dog to back down. You can clearly see the dogs posture relax ... while not aggressive, he's still alerted.
3:12 to 3:21 - the dog is not acting aggressive towards LEO's, but merely curious at the situation.
3:22 - the 3rd LEO keeps reaching and advancing towards the dog, boxing him out ... HUGE mistake when your dealing with an already alerted animal.

Why after seeing the dog relax and sniff around would that be your first priority. The dog did not lunge at the LEO's until that 3rd officer started to block him out and keep reaching.

So, as I have already asked, you think it is ok to just let that potentially aggressive dog (as you said, already alerted) just roam around??? Come on guys...

 

[artur1292]

Even if he had to be detained for acting like an idiot, let him talk to the dog and calm him down, EVEN WITH HANDCUFFS ON. Damn, if the dog was that loyal they could have let the man talk to the dog while they called Animal Control and taken the dog to the pound while the owner was taken to jail.

They could have
they should have

and in the end they chose the action with the poorest judgement out of them all. That's my beef with the LEO's (specifically the third one) in this situation.

True you are right and have a better sollution. They could have and should have left the guy supervised with his dog keeping it calm while they called animal control then they could have taken the dog to the pound and owner to jail and they would have avoided a law suit and made some money too.

 

[razr390]

It is easy to second guess the Police whenever they do anything. You cannot armchair quarterback situations with violence involved. Split second decisions. Instinct is on survival, not to warn. None of you can say you would not act in a similar way until it happens. We all would like to believe we would not do anything like this, but you cannot be sure until it actually happens. I'm sure that officer did not think, 'hey, I'm going to shoot a dog if it acts any way aggressive towards me' at the beginning of that situation.

You can interpret this situation a hundred different ways, and everyone would believe they are right.

Just throwing a blanket 'fuck the police' statement is so ignorant of the danger they face every day. Danger that would have most people pissing their pants. They have no idea what anyone, or animal in this case, is capable of at any time. They act on instinct just as much as dogs do, no matter the training. Self preservation is the biggest animal instinct. Officer acted in such a manner to preserve his own life.

Of course this will be studied and discussed ad nauseum. Simple fact remains, none of us were there, we have no idea what the situation felt like or called for. Watching is shit. FEELING it is completely different, and is why reactions like this happen. I'm sure it was a tense situation.

Could it have gone differently? Of course it COULD have, on both sides. But it did not. Blaming an officer for acting in a manner that he felt was right to protect his own life is ludicrous. We all would act accordingly if we felt our life was threatened. That is all he is guilty of.

I don't throw a blanket "Fuck the police" statement tbh, maybe just to that officer right now. Because an officer doesn't work as an officer to protect himself, and himself only. First off, an officer works to protect and keep calm the community he serves in, and then himself. All I am saying is this:

Blatant overreacting because the MAN who was being DETAINED was COMPLYING and was in no way OVERREACTING himself. The dog was acting instinctual, but in the end of the day the officer stooped to his level. In the end, you will see, the media will spread this and HPD will receive horrible PR calls, because in the end, the LEO has to have a smart way of judging a situation and thinking of every option before acting in such a way. I mean no disrespect to police officers, but they DO make mistakes like everyone, and this was a mistake of poor judgement by one of the officers, and when you make a mistake you pay for it. The owner made a mistake of being an idiot and he paid for it, unfortunately through the death of his dog. Now the officer and HPD will have their chance to pay for the mistakes. Remember, the mistakes happened ON BOTH SIDES, but as Law Enforcement, you are held to a higher standard when you make mistakes, as anyone who is famous. Take Paula Deen, in the most serious way. She loses everything she has in assets because of saying the N word, but when a normal person says it on the street no one pays it more than 2 minutes of attention.