Moses
Go Kart Champion
- Location
- New England
just read this whole thread. interesting.
V
APR K03 EGT's and Component Protection
- Thread starter sloMk5
- Start date
RICK_DIZZLE
Banned
- Location
- South Florida
- Car(s)
- 07 UG GTI
sub'd for info and entertainment...
Mike@Forge
Go Kart Champion
- Location
- Orlando FL
- Car(s)
- 07 BMP GTI Pkg 0
This is what I LOVE about the JDM aftermarket, and what I HATE about the VAG aftermarket.
The JDM market is all about custom tuning solutions to accomodate any and every possible combination of modifications, ambient conditions, etc. It's absolutely incredible, and the reason I'll be back in an Evo myself soon enough.
The VAG aftermarket is all about cookie cutter tunes that are deemed safe and reliable by some arbitrary set of rules dictated to you by supposed "experienced" tuners who have never ventured beyond the boundaries of their own tunnel vision, and anything outside of the options they give you are not only highly discouraged, but completely without support anywhere else as well. It's disgusting and it's why the VAG aftermarket is years behind the JDM aftermarket in terms of variety of viable options.
Keep in touch man. :thumbsup:
So the advantage of the JDM market is that they use crap engine management systems that aren't able to adapt themselves to modifications requiring you to retune when you buy fuel on a tuesday but you tuned it on a wednesday? There is no NEED to retune for every little change on a VW because the ECU is capable of doing it. You wouldn't get anymore power out of a basic bolt on parts 2.0t vs a production tune if you had the tools to tune it yourself.
I'm not saying this because I work for a software company I am saying this because I know the capabilities of the engine management systems.
Mike@Forge
Go Kart Champion
- Location
- Orlando FL
- Car(s)
- 07 BMP GTI Pkg 0
The stock ECU does have the ability to compensate for certain things, yes, but it is still limited and not ideal for all setups. Don't get me wrong, as I sell Revo, and promote it wholeheartedly because it's THE best option for these cars, and the closest to accomodating the widest possible range of hardware setups, but it's still limited to set perameters.
Why are there no standalone systems for VAG vehicles, like an AEM, HKS F-con Pro, or even a custom tunable setup like the Cobb Accessport?
I don't see JDM ECU's being inferior in any way. They use the same systems of controls (feedback loop) to keep the engine performing optimally, and can adapt on the fly in the same way that German market ECU's can, some even with multiple map switching features. They are just as advanced and fully featured as VAG ECU's. As an example, the Nissan GTR has some increible technology that you will find nowhere else, least of all in the VAG market.
My main point, however, is with regards to non-adjustable, fixed calibrations that are limited to specific sets of hardware. Not anything to do with Revo software. ;-)
Why are there no standalone systems for VAG vehicles, like an AEM, HKS F-con Pro, or even a custom tunable setup like the Cobb Accessport?
I don't see JDM ECU's being inferior in any way. They use the same systems of controls (feedback loop) to keep the engine performing optimally, and can adapt on the fly in the same way that German market ECU's can, some even with multiple map switching features. They are just as advanced and fully featured as VAG ECU's. As an example, the Nissan GTR has some increible technology that you will find nowhere else, least of all in the VAG market.
My main point, however, is with regards to non-adjustable, fixed calibrations that are limited to specific sets of hardware. Not anything to do with Revo software. ;-)
Our software does nothing of what you want, while our software is great it doesn't do what you can do with the JDM ecus.. It is more then others but not even remotely close, because its not needed.
The reason why you don't see these options for this market is the exact same reason why these ecus are far superior and why you need to retune an evo when you change your intake but not a VW.
There is not one part in this market that I can think of that would benefit by having the ability to to custom tune the ecu to get the most out of it other then possibly your adjsustable wastegate. Even then most would do that with a mbc or ebc in the JDM market anyway and not through the ecu, so again there is really no need for it in this market. People claim they want it but they wouldn't be able to handle it, they wouldn't make more power and probably would in fact make less.
The reason why you don't see these options for this market is the exact same reason why these ecus are far superior and why you need to retune an evo when you change your intake but not a VW.
There is not one part in this market that I can think of that would benefit by having the ability to to custom tune the ecu to get the most out of it other then possibly your adjsustable wastegate. Even then most would do that with a mbc or ebc in the JDM market anyway and not through the ecu, so again there is really no need for it in this market. People claim they want it but they wouldn't be able to handle it, they wouldn't make more power and probably would in fact make less.
Mike@Forge
Go Kart Champion
- Location
- Orlando FL
- Car(s)
- 07 BMP GTI Pkg 0
But you don't specifically NEED to retune ANY car for any mod, unless you are trying to extract the most power or the most efficiency or you have some other specific goal. An Evo doesn't need to be retuned for an intake, but if you want to realize the most power potential provided by the additional airflow that the intake provides, a tune is recommended and will often show improvements. Same concept applies to ALL internal combustion engines, although with some differences due to the added complication from the direct injection, but it's not impossible.
An MBC on an Evo, even though it bypasses the stock boost solenoid, doesn't completely compensate for the addition of something like our actuator. A tune is still needed to realize the most potential that the hardware upgrade provides. Assuming the block can support the boost, removing the boost limiter (measured by the same type of MAP sensor as a VAG car), and adjusting the fueling to compensate for the added boost will result in the greatest improvement. Your software allows us to adjust the boost, timing, and fueling to a degree that acheives similar levels of improvement as a custom tune on an Evo, for lack of custom tuning options being available for these cars.
But I digress. I always forget I'm not allowed to have an opinion if it's posted under my Forge username. :wink:
Never said you can't have an opinion, yours is valid I understand the merits of wanting this ability. What i am explaining is that there honestly is no benefit in this market. A custom tune on these cars isn't going ot extract even 1hp more for an intake or exhaust or just about any other mod i can think of. If you can't get 1 more hp then that means the factory ecu is adapting enough and getting you everything you can get a custom tune would just be a waste of time and money.
Is the map sensor the same on the evos? VWs don't have a map sensor they have a boost reference sensor that is pre throttle body. Where is it on the evos?
Is the map sensor the same on the evos? VWs don't have a map sensor they have a boost reference sensor that is pre throttle body. Where is it on the evos?
Mike@Forge
Go Kart Champion
- Location
- Orlando FL
- Car(s)
- 07 BMP GTI Pkg 0
Well, other people would have you believe that there are limits to how much the VAG ECU's can adapt to accomodate certain things, and it would seems as though some limitations are even deliberate, if you catch my drift! :wink: If there is more adaptability than this market is led to believe, maybe it's about time to change that.
Evo's do have an actual MAP sensor on the intake manifold, while VW's have it on the charge piping pre-throttle body, but the concept is the same. It takes a measurement and relates it to the ECU, which does the adapting as best it can based on the tune.
I'm 99.9% sure we're on the same page. I love you guys (no homo). I guess I just tried a little to hard to avoid pointing fingers with the verbage of my original post on the topic. :thumbsup:
Evo's do have an actual MAP sensor on the intake manifold, while VW's have it on the charge piping pre-throttle body, but the concept is the same. It takes a measurement and relates it to the ECU, which does the adapting as best it can based on the tune.
I'm 99.9% sure we're on the same page. I love you guys (no homo). I guess I just tried a little to hard to avoid pointing fingers with the verbage of my original post on the topic. :thumbsup:
I guess not anymore, Banned again? For what?
RICK_DIZZLE
Banned
- Location
- South Florida
- Car(s)
- 07 UG GTI
He got banned...bad form.
ThumbThumbs
Banned
- Location
- Newark Nj
mods this is fucking stupid, i said it once be4 but my post and the thread got deleted. Noside always responded and helped people but got banned for no reason. And it seemed that it happened again. Id love to know why he got banned this time 
$$$$$$$$
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Voices Off Camera
Ready to race!
- Location
- Houston, Texas
It might have had something to do with the constant personal attacks and trolling of APR threads.... maybe
While there might have been some upside to having him around (even that could be debated), his vendetta against a site sponsor was ridiculous. I'm not saying APR reps were always right, but he took the shit slinging to whole new level.
Look, he had his opportunity to come back and be the "bigger man". What did he do.... came back and bumped this thread to defend his honor. Nothing was ever going to change.
Good Riddance.
While there might have been some upside to having him around (even that could be debated), his vendetta against a site sponsor was ridiculous. I'm not saying APR reps were always right, but he took the shit slinging to whole new level.
Look, he had his opportunity to come back and be the "bigger man". What did he do.... came back and bumped this thread to defend his honor. Nothing was ever going to change.
Good Riddance.
It might have had something to do with the constant personal attacks and trolling of APR threads.... maybe
While there might have been some upside to having him around (even that could be debated), his vendetta against a site sponsor was ridiculous. I'm not saying APR reps were always right, but he took the shit slinging to whole new level.
Look, he had his opportunity to come back and be the "bigger man". What did he do.... came back and bumped this thread to defend his honor. Nothing was ever going to change.
Good Riddance.
Just seems to me like he had the same problems with the vendor that a lot of Vendors have with that Vendor... (I'm Just saying) APR makes comments in other Vendors threads all the time... aimed at stopping sales..
At the end of the day you can view it how you want to vandetta or not but I believe he had APR's fuel pump on his MKV