surfmb
Ready to race!
- Location
- myrtle beach
what does this do? just affect how fast the abs kicks in?
V
Ultimate Brake Upgrade using Stock Calipers
- Thread starter junker
- Start date
what does this do? just affect how fast the abs kicks in?
This isF a good write up and ultimately you solved your issue. Let me offer a more economical option:
To check your master cylinder step very firmly on the pedal and wait, does is sink slowly? If not its probably fine. Look under you calipers for any leaks.
Your brakes could have been glazed, poor batch of compound,...etc. don't know without driving your car. I am never a fan of "shared brake pads". Meaning drive your car on the street with street+ pads but get a real track pad. Something exceeding 1200 degrees. Mkv are heavy, I expect rotor temps to exceed 1000 degrees (which will quickly rid those pads of there blue color)
Treat rotors as disposable. Most guys I know buy autozone or NAPA blanks and throw them away after 4 track days or when you see REAL cracks (not spider cracks). My civic rotors are $34 and some guys use them a full season.
If not swapping rotors for track duty keep the pads in the same family. i.e. carbo techs on my s2000 I have a street pad but track it gets xp12 (rated to 2000 degrees) and there is no bedding/transfer layer issues when switching back and forth.
DOT 4 fluid should be changed/bled often. Go with Motul or ATE and don't piss your money away. There are far more people racing at all levels using these fluids.
My $.02
To check your master cylinder step very firmly on the pedal and wait, does is sink slowly? If not its probably fine. Look under you calipers for any leaks.
Your brakes could have been glazed, poor batch of compound,...etc. don't know without driving your car. I am never a fan of "shared brake pads". Meaning drive your car on the street with street+ pads but get a real track pad. Something exceeding 1200 degrees. Mkv are heavy, I expect rotor temps to exceed 1000 degrees (which will quickly rid those pads of there blue color)
Treat rotors as disposable. Most guys I know buy autozone or NAPA blanks and throw them away after 4 track days or when you see REAL cracks (not spider cracks). My civic rotors are $34 and some guys use them a full season.
If not swapping rotors for track duty keep the pads in the same family. i.e. carbo techs on my s2000 I have a street pad but track it gets xp12 (rated to 2000 degrees) and there is no bedding/transfer layer issues when switching back and forth.
DOT 4 fluid should be changed/bled often. Go with Motul or ATE and don't piss your money away. There are far more people racing at all levels using these fluids.
My $.02
bostonaudi
Go Kart Champion
- Location
- Charleston, SC
- Car(s)
- 1995 BMW M3
The Endless pads sound like a nice discovery. Most of the mods you listed are well proven.
Mk5 fronts get super hot, especially with aggressive pads. I've tried the cheapo rotors and warped em in one weekend, have settled back into VW OEM, which at $160 a pair ain't cheap, but I get anywhere from 10-15 track weekends out of them so I feel bang for buck is reasonably good. Cheap for this car is still $100/pr (perhaps one day we get E30 cheap at $25/rotor?). I see no reason to trash expensive bling rotors at the track as they're no better (and often worse) than plain jane OEM.
I've settled on DTC-60 Hawk pads when I run the GTI front brakes, and Yellowstuff when I'm running the R32 fronts (put those on for CMP outings as the brake demands are high and need the extra reserve). HPS pads on street. Sorta love/hate the R32 front brakes as well, lots of braking power but the weight is there too. I did the VCDS mod to set threshold to 2, which works well with R32 fronts as they require much less force to push them into lockup. I also feel ATE Super Blue is more than adequate, have never had an issue even with front calipers nearly on fire at CMP. Guys I run with who club race (944's etc.) say the same - and they are usually budget conscious and don't burn money where it doesn't help.
I installed RS3 vents as well, not sure they're doing anything, hopefully they are!
Mk5 fronts get super hot, especially with aggressive pads. I've tried the cheapo rotors and warped em in one weekend, have settled back into VW OEM, which at $160 a pair ain't cheap, but I get anywhere from 10-15 track weekends out of them so I feel bang for buck is reasonably good. Cheap for this car is still $100/pr (perhaps one day we get E30 cheap at $25/rotor?). I see no reason to trash expensive bling rotors at the track as they're no better (and often worse) than plain jane OEM.
I've settled on DTC-60 Hawk pads when I run the GTI front brakes, and Yellowstuff when I'm running the R32 fronts (put those on for CMP outings as the brake demands are high and need the extra reserve). HPS pads on street. Sorta love/hate the R32 front brakes as well, lots of braking power but the weight is there too. I did the VCDS mod to set threshold to 2, which works well with R32 fronts as they require much less force to push them into lockup. I also feel ATE Super Blue is more than adequate, have never had an issue even with front calipers nearly on fire at CMP. Guys I run with who club race (944's etc.) say the same - and they are usually budget conscious and don't burn money where it doesn't help.
I installed RS3 vents as well, not sure they're doing anything, hopefully they are!
I hear you on the rotors. It's not always kosher with the cheapo Chinese stuff. But not all cheapo rotors are equal. My mailman hates me because I order them on line and they come in that US postal flat fee box. Some folks even cross over to another rotor and have them drilled. I am looking at using mini rotors on a Honda. I hear more good things about hawk dt60 than any other pad. Wanting to try them
Agree with most of this, Boston.
If someone in a similar situation wants to save some money I'd stay with the MX72 pads,
the RS3 vents and the bronze bushings and just go for OEM discs and Ate SuperBlue fluid
instead. I guess if alsothe shields are removed you'll get 90 % of the effect with this.
The discs won't gain a 'huge' difference but there still is some difference in reliability and
friction. I didn't believe this on my self until I went to Tarox F2000 when I had an attractive
offer. They made a noticable difference in bite (and noise to be honest).
If someone in a similar situation wants to save some money I'd stay with the MX72 pads,
the RS3 vents and the bronze bushings and just go for OEM discs and Ate SuperBlue fluid
instead. I guess if alsothe shields are removed you'll get 90 % of the effect with this.
The discs won't gain a 'huge' difference but there still is some difference in reliability and
friction. I didn't believe this on my self until I went to Tarox F2000 when I had an attractive
offer. They made a noticable difference in bite (and noise to be honest).
surfmb
Ready to race!
- Location
- myrtle beach
cool man thanks a lot. definitely giving this a shot for the next autox
Thanks for all of the great feedback guys!
A few comments I have about the pads are that they are truly ninja quiet. :slice: IMO the MX-72 are pretty unique in a street-track pad and feel they are in another league than something like the HP+. I love the confidence they inspire. Also, GMG says they last 2x as long as anything else they have tried on their race cars. While I can't comment on their lifespan yet that could really offset a lot of their cost if true. Maybe they are not agressive enough for a pure race pad with race tires, but they sure have transformed my brakes, along with the bushings, and good bleed. :burnrubber:
I agree that ATE Blue is probably a great place to save a few bucks. Personally, I never had great brake feel with it on 2 previous bleeds, but yeah my problem could have been more related to the HPS pads, bedding, or the bushings. Not sure. At any rate this fluid cost an extra $60, but my brakes feel so great I'm not complaining. Not too bad over a two year lifecycle. :happyanim:
For my rear brakes I'll probably go with solid cryo rotors, pull of the shields, and order rear MX-72 pads. At about $60 each the rotors aren't that expensive versus $30 for non-cryo.
Also, the front non-slotted cryo rotors are much cheaper at $87 each, so they are about the same at OEM. Boston Audi: maybe try these instead of OEM next time to see if they have a longer life for you? I'd be VERY interested in this! :thumbsup:
http://www.tirerack.com/brakes/brakes.jsp?make=Centric&model=High+Carbon+Plain+125+Series+Cryo+Treated+Rotor&group=High+Carbon+Plain+125+Series+Cryo+Treated+Rotor&autoMake=Volkswagen&autoModel=GTI&autoYear=2007&autoModClar=4-Door
Also, when I push the rear pistons back in, the reservoir will fill back up a bit and hopefully this fluid will work for a year or two. Maybe I'll try ATE Blue again next time I do a bleed and see if I can feel any difference due to viscosity, etc.
Again thanks for the feedback and comparison to what you are trying on your set-ups.
A few comments I have about the pads are that they are truly ninja quiet. :slice: IMO the MX-72 are pretty unique in a street-track pad and feel they are in another league than something like the HP+. I love the confidence they inspire. Also, GMG says they last 2x as long as anything else they have tried on their race cars. While I can't comment on their lifespan yet that could really offset a lot of their cost if true. Maybe they are not agressive enough for a pure race pad with race tires, but they sure have transformed my brakes, along with the bushings, and good bleed. :burnrubber:
I agree that ATE Blue is probably a great place to save a few bucks. Personally, I never had great brake feel with it on 2 previous bleeds, but yeah my problem could have been more related to the HPS pads, bedding, or the bushings. Not sure. At any rate this fluid cost an extra $60, but my brakes feel so great I'm not complaining. Not too bad over a two year lifecycle. :happyanim:
For my rear brakes I'll probably go with solid cryo rotors, pull of the shields, and order rear MX-72 pads. At about $60 each the rotors aren't that expensive versus $30 for non-cryo.
Also, the front non-slotted cryo rotors are much cheaper at $87 each, so they are about the same at OEM. Boston Audi: maybe try these instead of OEM next time to see if they have a longer life for you? I'd be VERY interested in this! :thumbsup:
http://www.tirerack.com/brakes/brakes.jsp?make=Centric&model=High+Carbon+Plain+125+Series+Cryo+Treated+Rotor&group=High+Carbon+Plain+125+Series+Cryo+Treated+Rotor&autoMake=Volkswagen&autoModel=GTI&autoYear=2007&autoModClar=4-Door
Also, when I push the rear pistons back in, the reservoir will fill back up a bit and hopefully this fluid will work for a year or two. Maybe I'll try ATE Blue again next time I do a bleed and see if I can feel any difference due to viscosity, etc.
Again thanks for the feedback and comparison to what you are trying on your set-ups.
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VancouverGTI
Go Kart Champion
- Location
- Vancouver
Great write-up! The only thing I don't like is the original braking performance you described with the HPS pads. Honestly, there must be something wrong with your brakes, as you suspected. The only reason I mention it is to encourage you to keep checking things out, so your brakes will be even better.
If memory serves, there's a check valve in our system that can crack, and which will negatively affect your brake booster performance. Also, I've heard of the odd leaking vacuum pump. Lastly, as you know you could have a bad master cylinder.
If memory serves, there's a check valve in our system that can crack, and which will negatively affect your brake booster performance. Also, I've heard of the odd leaking vacuum pump. Lastly, as you know you could have a bad master cylinder.
With 700C pad temperatures you should be using titanium shims under them or the calipers & fluid heat up too much...
Do not run DOT 4 fluid for 2 years. That's bad. Corrosion at the LEAST. I think 6 months max. I do after any track weekend.
1300 degrees is on the low side for regular HPDE in an advanced group and too low for racing.
I don't understand if these cars are for track usage why you are not switching to a track set up from a street set up?????
1300 degrees is on the low side for regular HPDE in an advanced group and too low for racing.
I don't understand if these cars are for track usage why you are not switching to a track set up from a street set up?????
If Junker doesn't track at all heat won't be any issue for the calipers
and no need swapping fluid more often than every one or two years.
Endless do make some really serious track pads as well. Most famous
teams run the MA45B compound at the 24 hours at the Ring. With this
pad they don't need to change pads and rotors for the complete race.
Almost all leading cars run MA45B. Also Volkswagen does:
and no need swapping fluid more often than every one or two years.
Endless do make some really serious track pads as well. Most famous
teams run the MA45B compound at the 24 hours at the Ring. With this
pad they don't need to change pads and rotors for the complete race.
Almost all leading cars run MA45B. Also Volkswagen does:
ghost_03
Ready to race!
- Location
- Syracuse, NY
How does that hub work? It kind of looks like the wheel sits against the rotor, the pins keep it from spinning, and the hub thing just puts pressure against the center of the wheel somehow? So there's no actual bolts involved?