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Ultimate Brake Upgrade using Stock Calipers

junker

You get an 'F'!
Location
Berkeley
Car(s)
MkV GTI FSI
I've been waiting a long time to start this build thread, so sorry for the delay.

For quite some time I have had a major issue with the quality of my brakes using Hawk HPS pads and ATE Blue fluid. After a close call emergency braking on the freeway coming home from LA near Disneyland a year ago, I decided to do a fresh brake bleed with ATE Blue and Neuspeed brake lines. The brakes felt somewhat better after this, but not nearly what I had hoped for. So, for quite some time...years in fact... I have always allowed for extra distance when following other cars on the freeway due to poor brake feel. I had always experienced pedal travel to near the accelerator before beginning to feel any bite (if you want to call it that), then very little increase in brake torque with increasing pedal force. At very slow speeds with a lot of pedal, yeah I could get it stop pretty quick, but reacting quickly at speed with 2/3 of the brake pedal travel was not good enough at all. I seriously felt that maybe I had a bad master cylinder. Let me say this another way...my brakes were so terrible that I thought I might have a hardware issue. Well, getting into a single accident was not worth it. The cost and inconvenience of that alone would be significant.

So, I did quite a bit of research and was going to focus my brake budget on the front axle to get the biggest impact for my money. I already had braided brake lines and HPS pads, and can always go back and take care of the rear axle at a later time.

So, this is the kit I put together. No matter what you do if you have bad pads, you will have bad brakes. It's the same thing with the other friction material on our cars - the tires. The best suspension in the world won't matter if you put compromised tires on your car. If I wouldn't have been able to get the Endless MX-72 brake pads, then I would have bought Pagid Blue 4-2's and saved $100. You can read more about these Endless pads here:

http://www.endlessusa.com/#!__brake-pads/mx72

These pads are a street / light track pad maybe comprable to Hawk HP+. According to GMG they last twice as long as anything else they use and go on every single Porsche Cup car that goes through their shop. They also told me they won't squeal. Too good to be true? Nope...

OK, let's get this out there right now. You can't spend a better $350 on your car period and when I say that I am even including putting that money toward chipping. I guaranty this upgrade will shave a lot more off your laps times than just about anything else out there except tires and driving classes. The best money I have spent on my car to date.

If anyone ends up wanting to get these..good luck since there are none in the US. I had mine brought in from Japan. Allen at GMG knows me and order them for you from Endless USA a few miles away. You will need size EIP122 for the front.

Now to be fair, I also installed the TyrolSport solid caliper bushings, and did a fresh flush using the insanely expensive Endless RF-650 brake fluid. 1L cost me $80. Yep, brake fluid cost me $80 and I didn't get a reach around or a happy ending. :lol:I bleed what I estimated was about 250mL on the front wheels, but think I used a bit more and was cutting it close on the rears. Right now my reservoir is close to the min mark. Knowing this I would have bleed a little bit less thought the fronts. But... it did take more than I thought to get all of the ATE Blue out of there but you can do it on 1L if you are careful. I also have to note that I used a turkey baster to get as much of the old fluid out of the reservior as I could before starting the bleed.

So, what did this $500 get me? Absolutely everything. My pedal travels slightly less before biting, but as you encounter the bite point it's progressive in say the same way that a memory foam pillow feels versus a soft feather pillow, and you can modulate that perfectly. Any erratic behavior in front of you, or a cut-off simply takes a slight touch of pressure to counter and respond. And when you are modulating and realize you want to put the hammer down, then things comes to a rest so fast that the friction makes the whole car buzz like your getting shocked by high voltage. :yikes:So, the second day with these pads, bushings, and fluid - don't think they are completely broken in yet since I can still see machining on the rotors - I gave my co-pilot a heads up and did a pretty heavy 80 mph down to 20 or 30 mph stop, and he said he was deadlifting with he legs in the foot well. I just burst out with a maniacal laughter becuase it was pretty surreal. Couldn't control it. Yep, had tunnel vision. He thought he had a headache afterwards. :barf:And dynolicious reported 0.98 G on that stop. :eyebulge::happyanim::drool:I could have definitely put in more pedal pressure, nothing locked up, but the emergency brake lights kicked in and started flashing. So far not a single squeal. They also never smelled bad during break-in. The only negative I can think of is that they might have a little less bite the first couple stops when cold, but still equal or better than Hawk HPS.

Pros: Stop like you got caught in a tractor beam, quiet, last a long time.
Cons: Expensive, they are blue, take a few stops for the friction coefficient to go up and start generating high torque values

These pads don't have the brake pad wear sensor, so I need to turn that off with VCDS and change the braking threshold value reported by The Bruce :clap:

OK, so back to the overall brake job... I removed the caliper shields and installed the RS3 vents. If you order these, you DO NOT need the alloy sleeves. Save yourselves $22. :mad:And if someone has alloy arms and needs them, let me know. I'll send them to you priority for $10. :thumbsup:I then used DEI gold tape to cover the ABS, brake pad wear sensor harness, and the ball joints.

Because I was spending so much on this brake job, I wanted to do it right and also bought new rotors. For an extra $30 per rotor, PowerSlut will cryo treat the rotors using a number of thermo cycles over 3 days to remove internal stresses in the metal. This is supposed to improve wear and reduce the chance of warping from water getting on the rotors - a concern when running without the shields. I ordered these from MJM, and cryo treating will also take a little extra time due to processing. If you don't mind shipping, www.tirerack.com had some in stock last time I checked and is probably worth the time savings. The vents inside the rotor are straight so you can install the slots in either direction. So, I thought the slots look better facing backwards at the top of the rotor. Tirerack.com also has Cryo non-slotted rotors for about $87 each - a great way to shave some money on this!

At $900 dollars this wasn't a cheap brake job, but it may have been the best money I have ever spent on my car. :thumbsup::bow:To save some money you could probably go with ATE Blue and skip the RS3 vents, and maybe use cheaper rotors. Having great pads, caliper bushings, and fresh fluid are the must-have components of this brake job and would cost you under $500. If you think you're HPS pads are great, you have no idea how much better your stock calipers can be. :bellyroll: R32 calipers would cost at least twice as much as what I spent, and you would still need good pads and fluid...and they will weight a lot. :thumbdown:

Eventually, I'll upgrade the rotors and discs on the back when they need it. GMG said the rears are a little cheaper. Is it worth the extra $ over Hawk? YES! :wub:

Here is a list of what I used, and the vendors. Feel free to ask me any questions you may have.

Junker's Ultimate Stock Brake Upgrade Kit

Essential items (Under $465): pads, bushings, and fluid. Rotors if run-out, worn, or scored.
Optional items (Under $900 total): vents, tape, expensive fluid, SS lines, cryo and/or slotted rotors.

 

Attachments

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Stampedevxl

RACECAR > STANCECAR
Location
Lutz fl
Car(s)
really?
do those pads dust a lot? they look nice
 

junker

You get an 'F'!
Location
Berkeley
Car(s)
MkV GTI FSI
do those pads dust a lot? they look nice
Don't think so since they are semi-ceramic and they rate dust at 8/10. They are supposed to last a long time. :wink:

The pics above are after install and my wheels were dirty from the HPS. I'll post some other pics and update after they are completely broken in and I find someone to help me with vag-com. :thumbsup:
 
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the bruce

Go Kart Champion
Location
land
Car(s)
Golf GTI Mk.V 2008
Great write up, Josh !! Very glad you are happy with the pads.

When you found someone with VCDS/VAGcom you may delete the emergency brake lights also.


ps:
when I look at the pads I think BMW brake wear sensors might fit to them
 

junker

You get an 'F'!
Location
Berkeley
Car(s)
MkV GTI FSI
VCDS updates have been made:

  1. Turned off the brake pad wear sensor
  2. Changed ABS braking threshold (Channel 9) from 00 to 02
  3. Turned off emergency braking lights

I'll update in a few days after I have time to try everything out. :thumbsup:
 
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psyclone

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
Colorado
Thanks for the write-up. I have been looking for a source for the RS3 ducts and you provided it. I have done the tyrol bushings, removed the dust shields, and wrapped the brake lines with reflective tape. Next up: stainless steel lines and ducts!
 

junker

You get an 'F'!
Location
Berkeley
Car(s)
MkV GTI FSI
Awesome! Yeah can't say enough about the improved brake feel and stopping power. Had to drive up to USC and Hulu in Santa Monica yesterday and then back up last night for The Standard and a concert. Virtually eliminates every "oh $#!~" moment"! Just commuting they aren't hot enough to be super grippy, but with added foot pressure they grab very well still.
 

junker

You get an 'F'!
Location
Berkeley
Car(s)
MkV GTI FSI
Brake Noise, Dust, and Rotor Wear Update

Over the past tank of gas during the last week I've driven in a number of conditions including city, freeway, and significant stop-an-go to LA on the 405, light rain, and sunshine.

Noise
Under these mixed-conditions the Endless MX-72 have not made a single noise so they are quieter than the HPS I was running that would occasionally squeal lightly coming to a stop in city driving. Score 10/10 :thumbup:

Dust
I'll have to give them a 7/10 here. Wiping my finger along the center wheel spokes there is no dust to speak of, but along the outside edge near the lip there is a light coating of a black, silky, sooty nature. Hard for me to directly compare to HPS, but I'll be conservative and say that they dust a little more. I think you'll be wanting to wash your wheels every week or tank of fuel. :frown:

EDIT: Upping dust rating to 8/10. There is just a bit of black soot on the wheel when I wash my car. Not very much at all and cleans up easy. Seems about the same at Hawk HPS, perhaps slightly more.

Rotors
The rotors still have the light cross hatching pattern to them, so I believe the pads are very gentle on rotors and/or the cryogenic treating improves their wear greatly. :thumbsup:
 
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the bruce

Go Kart Champion
Location
land
Car(s)
Golf GTI Mk.V 2008
Thanks for this, Junker !!

Keep me informed. ;-)
 

the bruce

Go Kart Champion
Location
land
Car(s)
Golf GTI Mk.V 2008

07DSG

Ready to race!
Location
Winchester, VA
Yeah I was curious what the vents do, the design, etc. I do want a pad that I can just leave on there, the endless are a little pricey for me. Also considering using carbotech 1521 on street and switching out XP8's for track.
 
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