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Fighting with P2177 (running lean)

larcic

Ready to race!
Location
Tampa, FL
Tuner advised me not to use the RS4 one.

interesting. I've seen people running it on k03 tunes no problem. and those are definitely not tuned for it
 

FriggenT

Go Kart Champion
Location
Maryland
in regards to doing a smoke test for leaks, where are good points to connect to?
yesterday I randomly drained my catch can and pulled off one of the hoses that connects to the head to blow the water out faster and while i plugged the pcv on the head and blowing through the hose, I swore I could hear a faint hissing sound.

Intake manifold where the PCV hose connects. Get a 3/8 hose and cigar and start blowing smoke
 

tedted

Newbie
Location
CA
Intake manifold where the PCV hose connects. Get a 3/8 hose and cigar and start blowing smoke

tobacco is wacko jk.
could i just have the car idle and put a cigar or cigarette on the end of the hose and let the vacuum pull the smoke in? I really cant imagine taking fat rips and blowing the smoke in lol.
 

FriggenT

Go Kart Champion
Location
Maryland
tobacco is wacko jk.
could i just have the car idle and put a cigar or cigarette on the end of the hose and let the vacuum pull the smoke in? I really cant imagine taking fat rips and blowing the smoke in lol.

I used to smoke myself and it even made me feel sick. Well...I took a piece of cardboard, burned the end for a minute, put it out, and let the smoke from the smoldering cardboard get pulled in...might get some ash in there, but I highly doubt that will hurt anything. Put a piece of screen over it if you're worried.
No though, just holding a cigar there won't produce enough smoke.

You could also use a stick or something btw.
 

larcic

Ready to race!
Location
Tampa, FL
I dont think this will work with engine on since its under vacuum. I would think all the smoke would you just get sucked in by the engine and come out of the exhaust side... but I've never done it so I could be wrong. but I do know that proper smoke and leak tests are done with the engine off
 

FriggenT

Go Kart Champion
Location
Maryland
I dont think this will work with engine on since its under vacuum. I would think all the smoke would you just get sucked in by the engine and come out of the exhaust side... but I've never done it so I could be wrong. but I do know that proper smoke and leak tests are done with the engine off

Yeah, that's why I suggested the cigar, plug the hose to the manifold with engine off, and blow some smoke in there. There are some ways to make cheap smoke testers though.

https://youtu.be/8aTAwO-2-6k something like that
 

Finder

Ready to race!
Location
Canada
More updates:
I replaced the fuel rail PRV as well as the N80 purge valve as I've heard if it goes bad it might influence fuel readings.
Unfortunately none of them made any real improvement.
 

Finder

Ready to race!
Location
Canada
Long term fuel trims have now stabilized around +17. Still high but no more CEL.
Unfortunately I ran out of ideas so if someone can think of anything else to try please let me know.
 

Finder

Ready to race!
Location
Canada
Still at 17 with LTFT. I do see P2177 popping every now and then, but only as soft code so no CEL.
The car drives better but still has its hesitation moments.
Does anyone know if the secondary (after cat) O2 sensor has anything to do with fuel trims? All I know is it's only doing cat performance tests and with a tune it gets ignored.
I would really like to get to the bottom of this somehow...
 

larcic

Ready to race!
Location
Tampa, FL
post cat does nothing except read cat efficiency. mine is on a spacer on unitronic stage 2 hpfp tune. it does nothing
 

Finder

Ready to race!
Location
Canada
That's what I thought..
Could an EVAP leak cause fuel trim issues? I know that gases from the evap canister are being sucked into the intake manifold. Not sure what kind of volume are we talking about and I don't see how it can be metered as the MAF is on the intake but I'm thinking maybe a leak there could cause a significant amount of non-metered air to get into the intake manifold.
 

GIACUser

Master Wallet Mechanic
Location
USA
Car(s)
MK 6 GolfR
I've logged throttle valve angle and timing retardation per cylinder last week.

RPM THR CYL1 CYL2 CYL3 CYL4
2120 10.2 -12 -12 -12 -12
2160 10.2 -12 -12 -12 -12
2160 10.6 -12 -12 -12 -12
2200 10.6 -12 -12 -12 -12
2200 11 -12 -12 -12 -12
2240 11 -12 -12 -12 -12
2280 30.2 -12 -12 -12 -12
2400 99.2 -12 -12 -12 -12
2480 99.6 -12 -12 -12 -12
2600 99.6 -12 -12 -12 -12
2720 99.6 -12 -12 -12 -12
2840 99.6 -12 -12 -12 -12
3040 96.9 -12 -12 -12 -12
3240 96.1 -12 -12 -12 -12
3360 96.9 -12 -12 -12 -12
3560 97.3 -12 -12 -12 -12
3720 97.3 -12 -12 -12 -12
3920 96.9 -12 -12 -12 -12
4080 96.5 -12 -12 -12 -12
4240 96.1 -12 -12 -12 -12
4400 96.1 -12 -12 -12 -12
4600 96.5 -12 -12 -12 -12
4760 96.5 -12 -12 -12 -12
4840 96.9 -12 -12 -12 -12
5040 96.5 -12 -12 -12 -12
5240 96.5 -12 -12 -12 -12
5320 96.5 -12 -12 -12 -12
5440 96.9 -12 -12 -12 -12
5560 96.9 -12 -12 -12 -12
5680 96.9 -12 -12 -12 -12
5800 96.9 -12 -12 -12 -12
5920 96.9 -12 -12 -12 -12
6040 96.9 -12 -12 -12 -12

And I don't get any misfires.

Good god, You are seeing max retardation across all cylinders in a run. Surprised car didn't go into limp mode. ECU can pull a max of 12 degrees which is a LOT. With max timing pull across all cylinders even at partial throttle I would be very suspicious of something like a bad knock sensor providing a false reading and causing all of that timing pull. If it were really that lean I would expect to see some difference between partial throttle and and full throttle in terms of timing pull.
 

Finder

Ready to race!
Location
Canada
Yeah, in the winter when I had 22 LTFT it was bad. I don't really know what changed now that it dropped to 17. Winter gas, less denser air, I really have no idea.
I will have to do newer logs to see if I can spot anything new but I'm at wits end with this car..
 

Finder

Ready to race!
Location
Canada
I've decided for now to focus some more on vacuum leaks and today I tried to test the brake booster hoses, valve and brake booster itself with a hand vacuum pump and gauge.
The valve seems fine letting air go to the intake manifold but not back. Hoses have no cracks but what I've found really strange is that the brake booster doesn't hold vacuum at all. Not sure if it's normal or not but I expected it to hold.
My brakes are working correctly but I discovered that if I pump the pedal quickly when the engine is running, the idle starts to bounce and on my boost gauge I see the vacuum raising from 22 to 18 Hg.
Again not sure if all this is normal or not.

I'm doing all this to figure out if I have a small leak at the brake booster that the vacuum pump can overcome and keep the brakes working properly but enough to throw off my fuel trims.
 

larcic

Ready to race!
Location
Tampa, FL
not normal. at least not in my car
 
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