Fighting with P2177 (running lean)

[Finder]

Group 231 log:

RPM mbar mbar %
2000 4870.5 4794 47.5
2040 4870.5 4794 47.5
2040 4870.5 4794 47.5
2040 4870.5 4819.5 47.1
2040 4870.5 4794 47.5
2080 4870.5 4794 48.2
2080 4870.5 4794 48.2
2120 4870.5 4794 49.8
2160 4845 4743 51.4
2160 4845 4692 52.9
2240 4845 4692 53.3
2280 4845 4717.5 53.7
2360 4845 4743 54.1
2400 4845 4717.5 55.3
2440 4845 4717.5 56.1
2520 4845 4717.5 57.6
2560 4845 4717.5 58.4
2680 4845 4717.5 59.6
2760 4845 4717.5 60
2840 4845 4692 61.2
2880 4845 4641 61.6
3000 4845 4590 62.7
3120 4845 4564.5 63.5
3160 4845 4539 64.3
3280 4845 4513.5 65.5
3360 4819.5 4488 65.9
3440 4819.5 4462.5 66.3
3520 4819.5 4462.5 67.5
3640 4819.5 4437 67.5
3720 4819.5 4437 67.8
3800 4819.5 4437 68.6
3920 4819.5 4437 69.4
3960 4819.5 4488 69
4000 4819.5 4590 67.1
4080 4819.5 4692 66.3
4160 4819.5 4692 66.7
4240 4819.5 4717.5 65.9
4280 4819.5 4743 66.7
4360 4819.5 4717.5 67.1
4440 4819.5 4743 67.1
4480 4794 4717.5 67.5
4520 4794 4717.5 67.5
4600 4794 4692 67.8
4680 4794 4692 69
4760 4794 4666.5 69.4
4800 4794 4641 69
4880 4794 4641 69.4
4960 4794 4615.5 69.8
5040 4794 4564.5 70.2
5080 4794 4539 70.6
5120 4794 4488 70.6
5200 4794 4462.5 71
5240 4794 4437 71
5320 4794 4437 71.8
5360 4768.5 4411.5 71.4
5440 4768.5 4411.5 71.4
5520 4768.5 4411.5 72.2
5560 4768.5 4335 72.2
5640 4768.5 4207.5 74.1
5680 4768.5 4105.5 76.1
5760 4768.5 4029 78
5840 4768.5 4003.5 78.4
5720 4768.5 4003.5 78.8
5880 4768.5 4003.5 78.4
6000 4768.5 4029 77.6

Am I correct to assume the LPFP is not meeting request and therefore might cause all this after all?

 

[TypeR_126]

FWIW, I'm going through the exact same thing right now. My long term adaption numbers match yours almost exactly and I've gone through replacing all the hoses, clamps, purge valve, etc. Thing runs like a top right after a reset.

 

[Finder]

Thing runs like a top right after a reset.

Same thing with mine, which makes me believe it has to be a sensor not reading correctly. This is why I went and replaced some.
I think that if it's really a fuel delivery issue the car cannot work properly by resetting the adaptation values.
I may try a new G410 sensor after all. It's cheaper than a tank pump.

 

[Finder]

I've installed a new G410 sensor Friday and the next day a new in-tank pump.
None of these solved my issue.

I'm about to set this car on fire..

 

[clockwise33]

How does it run with the MAF unplugged? Did you get a look at the spark plugs?

 

[Finder]

Should I unplug the MAF as it is now with the fuel trims at 22% and see how it runs or clear the ECU first then unplug and go for a drive?

I haven't check the spark plugs yet but I will do it these days for sure.

 

[clockwise33]

Should I unplug the MAF as it is now with the fuel trims at 22% and see how it runs or clear the ECU first then unplug and go for a drive?

I haven't check the spark plugs yet but I will do it these days for sure.

Try both, before and after a trim reset.

Look at the plugs. If one is obviously running more lean then its an injector.

Who did the air leak test? It may be worth it to bring the car to a professional to see if they can find an air leak.

After that you may just have to take the whole intake/charge system apart piece by piece and carefully inspect.

 

[larcic]

"car cant calculate properly with the maf unplugged unless you have a mafless tune. the map tables are not complete enough to use"...trims will climb. when I had the trims issue i tried this and my trims just kept climbing really high and I asked my mechanic what that means and he told me that...plus he already said its a new maf sensor. I agree that you should have a smoke test done or redone...and you should remove the intake completely, inspect and put it back, thats what solved my issue. you should also check the breather tube. specially the connection to the turbo, my metal gasket was completely off lol. you should also check your pcv blockoff for leaks...a leak there would be unmetered air. I'd take it off and inspect the orange gasket.

there is also no reason to not try the stock intake...its easy to swap and like I said your trims could have always been high but you only noticed it because you started getting a cel. but you may have always been 1-2% away from a cel

 

[clockwise33]

"car cant calculate properly with the maf unplugged unless you have a mafless tune. the map tables are not complete enough to use"...trims will climb. when I had the trims issue i tried this and my trims just kept climbing really high and I asked my mechanic what that means and he told me that...plus he already said its a new maf sensor. I agree that you should have a smoke test done or redone...and you should remove the intake completely, inspect and put it back, thats what solved my issue. you should also check the breather tube. specially the connection to the turbo, my metal gasket was completely off lol. you should also check your pcv blockoff for leaks...a leak there would be unmetered air. I'd take it off and inspect the orange gasket.

there is also no reason to not try the stock intake...its easy to swap and like I said your trims could have always been high but you only noticed it because you started getting a cel. but you may have always been 1-2% away from a cel

With the MAF unplugged, the car can run safely using the primary O2 sensor to calculate A/F ratio. If this car runs fine with the MAF unplugged it would point the a pre-turbo air leak or faulty MAF.

 

[larcic]

again its a new maf...and i never said it wouldnt run safely or not fine. just saying fuel trims wont be accurate anyway and will not drop back to zero...theyll stay around 20%

 

[larcic]

these cars will run "fine" with fuel trims up to 25% it may feel a little off but the ecu will continue to compensate up to 25% my car ran fine at 18% fuel trim and it went up to 20% with the maf unplugged. went down to 15% with a new maf. then when i fixed the leak at my intake coupler it went down to 7%. I never noticed a difference driving with these different percentages. the only issue i had was sometimes when moving in a parking lot the car would rev itself up to 2k rpm briefly when switching to neutral...

 

[clockwise33]

these cars will run "fine" with fuel trims up to 25% it may feel a little off but the ecu will continue to compensate up to 25% my car ran fine at 18% fuel trim and it went up to 20% with the maf unplugged. went down to 15% with a new maf. then when i fixed the leak at my intake coupler it went down to 7%. I never noticed a difference driving with these different percentages. the only issue i had was sometimes when moving in a parking lot the car would rev itself up to 2k rpm briefly when switching to neutral...

But he isn't running fine with the MAF plugged in. This is obvious by the max timing pull on all cylinders.

 

[larcic]

But he isn't running fine with the MAF plugged in. This is obvious by the max timing pull on all cylinders.

still doesnt change the fact that its a new maf and that unplugging the maf wont fix fuel trims because the car cant provide accurate fuel trims with the maf unplugged. and by fine i meant not very noticable.. sorry i wasnt clear on that...i know numbers will be off in timing when your trims are off. it wont hurt to try unplugging it so he should just try it. just saying in my exprience my fuel trims and timing remained off with the maf unplugged and my leak was preturbo so youd think that unplugging the maf would have fixed it...

 

[Finder]

 

[Finder]

A longer log, started immediately after an ECU reset, to show how the fuel trims climb. There are two WOT pulls in there too.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/33r0k1ehii33edx/LOG-01-029-20F-323-331-1031-2303.xls?dl=0