Who gets the FT-86, FRS and BRZ?

[Chuck2001]

Subaru's been one of the most successful companies the last 5 years or so, can you expand more on the thoughts of Toyota acquiring them, if thats what you're saying? Subaru outsold (by percentage sales increase, not total volume) every brand in 2008, iirc.

I think the design has been influenced by Toyota since 2006 model planification (initial investment in FHI).

The 2008 Impreza is quite different from previous Impreza models right !?!

But it seems to have served them well for sale numbers !

 

[2.0t_convert]

Subaru's been one of the most successful companies the last 5 years or so, can you expand more on the thoughts of Toyota acquiring them, if thats what you're saying? Subaru outsold (by percentage sales increase, not total volume) every brand in 2008, iirc.

All based on speculation and from word of mouth from insiders with other companies such as Hyundai.

At present the break even point on a new ground up model is roughly 1 million units sold. Using existing chassis or refining prior engines/transmissions/etc make this a tough number to pin down but I'll still with 1 million.

% increase doesn't matter so much as volume as a small volume automaker like Subaru will have more trouble competing in a world where progress demands drastic improvements. When Toyota is spenting a billion just to heavily refresh the Camry and not build a new car from the ground up then smaller volume automakers will have a tough road to keep pace.

I'm betting Subaru like Mazda will find a partner and become tied up with shared development costs. This does not mean Subaru losses all of the companies own say and independece much the same way Audi still has some leeway in product development and company management within the VW AG family group.

Do I know this for sure? - Of course not but I highly suspect we will see this play out soon. History shows us mergers or partnerships are requirements for survival the same way brands like Peugeot or Nissan have survived and even thrived.

 

[Gunkata]

I think the design has been influenced by Toyota since 2006 model planification (initial investment in FHI).

The 2008 Impreza is quite different from previous Impreza models right !?!

But it seems to have served them well for sale numbers !

I dont know about that - GM was heavily involved before too, see Saabaru 92x, etc. As for the 08, it was the same car as the prior gen, just with new sheet metal.

All based on speculation and from word of mouth from insiders with other companies such as Hyundai.

At present the break even point on a new ground up model is roughly 1 million units sold. Using existing chassis or refining prior engines/transmissions/etc make this a tough number to pin down but I'll still with 1 million.

% increase doesn't matter so much as volume as a small volume automaker like Subaru will have more trouble competing in a world where progress demands drastic improvements. When Toyota is spenting a billion just to heavily refresh the Camry and not build a new car from the ground up then smaller volume automakers will have a tough road to keep pace.

I'm betting Subaru like Mazda will find a partner and become tied up with shared development costs. This does not mean Subaru losses all of the companies own say and independece much the same way Audi still has some leeway in product development and company management within the VW AG family group.

Do I know this for sure? - Of course not but I highly suspect we will see this play out soon. History shows us mergers or partnerships are requirements for survival the same way brands like Peugeot or Nissan have survived and even thrived.

good points, I guess it is possible they would partner with Toyota and have seen speculation on that as well, I guess im just saying i dont know if they "need" it, because of how well they have been doing.

 

[2.0t_convert]

good points, I guess it is possible they would partner with Toyota and have seen speculation on that as well, I guess im just saying i dont know if they "need" it, because of how well they have been doing.

How well a company has been doing is also a measure of how attractive it is for a merge or takeover

Kind of OT but I've also heard it rumored one of the reasons the government hasn't yet let go of the final hold of GM stock is the administration and GM is worried about too much stock being open for buying or in shareholders hands. GM would be an attractive target for another automaker looking for a window into the US market alongside all the GM product technology... in other words GMs own Chinese parter SAIC.

Even the mere rumor or speculation of a takeover by a Chinese company could be bad for someone seeking re-election.

 

[Chuck2001]

I dont know about that - GM was heavily involved before too, see Saabaru 92x, etc. As for the 08, it was the same car as the prior gen, just with new sheet metal.

Doesn't seem as the same deal. GM just asked FHI to build imprezas for them with a new front end...

It's like they bought imprezas and changed some things...rebadge and go.

Toyobaru partnership is much deeper. Ownership is involved.

As for 2008 Impreza, yes it is the same car as the previous gen but design is closer to Toyota. Toyota brings design into Subaru which helped and helps the company right now in term of sales.

 

[Tecni]

I saw it on Saturday at the Celebration Exotic car show. It was amazingly BLAH

 

[Gunkata]

Doesn't seem as the same deal. GM just asked FHI to build imprezas for them with a new front end...

It's like they bought imprezas and changed some things...rebadge and go.

Toyobaru partnership is much deeper. Ownership is involved.

As for 2008 Impreza, yes it is the same car as the previous gen but design is closer to Toyota. Toyota brings design into Subaru which helped and helps the company right now in term of sales.

technically, toyota has no ownership and they've only had partnership, afaik.

The wrx design seemed pretty close to the normal crap designs they were already doing, so not following you there, same with the '08 STI redesign.

And no, GM owned chunks of FHI, it wasn't just a deal to build it necessarily, they did have some ownership, just as toyota may down the line, sure. And no one buys a Subaru for the way the look btw, lol...