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Ukraine: WAR Huh - What Is It Good For Absorootly Nothing

cb1111

Newbie
Location
Virginia, USA
I’m wondering if there really is a mole in the FSB, or if Ukraine said that knowing full well Putin would be digging there for blood.

I like to think the intel folks in Ukraine wouldn’t potentially compromise such a fantastic asset.
Good point. From what I know (including from people who have met Putin over the years), Putin has turned irrational and is getting increasingly more paranoid, so he might be goaded into cleaning house at the FSB - or there might be a mole. But the only way to find out is to decimate that organization.
 

golfdave

Autocross Champion
Location
Scotland (U.K.)
Car(s)
Mk7 Golf GT Estate
I’m wondering if there really is a mole in the FSB, or if Ukraine said that knowing full well Putin would be digging there for blood.

I like to think the intel folks in Ukraine wouldn’t potentially compromise such a fantastic asset. Rather, toss FSB under the bus and grab the popcorn.

this short clip & saying seem appropriate!

 

cb1111

Newbie
Location
Virginia, USA
Only tangentially related, but Belarus is basically Russia. The far right / Russia connection is getting stronger...

https://www.npr.org/2022/03/23/1088...6-insurrection-suspect-refugee-belarus-asylum
Good for him. They will exploit him for propaganda and then spit him out to Siberia. But I guess that politics there aren't much different from California these days.

On a more serious note, they should revoke his citizenship and then tell him to go screw himself when he wants to come back - which will be as soon as the novelty wears off and reality sets in. He has his 15 seconds of fame now and pretty soon he'll be a wanted felon. How long will it take a court to convict him?
 

Corprin

Autocross Champion
Location
Magrathea
Car(s)
A car
At what point does your us citizenship get revoked for you?
 

uglybastard

Autocross Champion
Location
GOML
Car(s)
Mk6 GTI

cb1111

Newbie
Location
Virginia, USA
At what point does your us citizenship get revoked for you?
It isn't easy and requires "intent" but intent is sometimes in the eye of the beholder. It is obviously easier if you are a naturalized citizen, but if you were born in the US, there are a few things (other than formally renouncing your citizenship that get your citizenship dumped

Acts That Will Result in Your Renouncing U.S. Citizenship​

Your citizenship will or can be lost if you do one of these things:

  • formally renounce it before a U.S. diplomatic or consular officer in a foreign state
  • during a time when the U.S. is at war, formally renounce your citizenship while you are still in the U.S. or one of its territories, by putting your renunciation in writing and sending it to the U.S. Attorney General
  • become a naturalized citizen in another country or take an oath or affirmation or other formal declaration of allegiance to that country after you turn 18 years old (though despite this section of the law, in either of these cases, the DOS may give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you meant to retain your U.S. citizenship)
  • take a job with a foreign government and either become a national of that country or swear an oath, affirmation, or declaration of allegiance to it, after you turn 18 (though if it's a non-policy level job, the DOS may presume that you didn't mean to give up your U.S. citizenship)
  • serve in the armed forces of a foreign country, if it is engaged in hostilities against the U.S. or you serve at an officer rank, or
  • commit an act of treason against the United States, or attempt by force to overthrow, or bear arms against, its government, or perform any of various similar acts.
What is certainly easier is to revoke his passport. That happened to Manafort (today? Yesterday?)
 

cb1111

Newbie
Location
Virginia, USA
I imagine once his conviction happens, 8 U.S.C. § 1481 can be applied

It isn't easy and requires "intent" but intent is sometimes in the eye of the beholder. It is obviously easier if you are a naturalized citizen, but if you were born in the US, there are a few things (other than formally renouncing your citizenship that get your citizenship dumped

Acts That Will Result in Your Renouncing U.S. Citizenship​

Your citizenship will or can be lost if you do one of these things:

  • formally renounce it before a U.S. diplomatic or consular officer in a foreign state
  • during a time when the U.S. is at war, formally renounce your citizenship while you are still in the U.S. or one of its territories, by putting your renunciation in writing and sending it to the U.S. Attorney General
  • become a naturalized citizen in another country or take an oath or affirmation or other formal declaration of allegiance to that country after you turn 18 years old (though despite this section of the law, in either of these cases, the DOS may give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you meant to retain your U.S. citizenship)
  • take a job with a foreign government and either become a national of that country or swear an oath, affirmation, or declaration of allegiance to it, after you turn 18 (though if it's a non-policy level job, the DOS may presume that you didn't mean to give up your U.S. citizenship)
  • serve in the armed forces of a foreign country, if it is engaged in hostilities against the U.S. or you serve at an officer rank, or
  • commit an act of treason against the United States, or attempt by force to overthrow, or bear arms against, its government, or perform any of various similar acts.
What is certainly easier is to revoke his passport. That happened to Manafort (today? Yesterday?)
Two great minds......

This guy might also be the first to be charged with treason for the Jan 6 events. Given his recent actions, one could make the case that he was an agent for a foreign government as well....

In any case, he just screwed himself royally.
 

zrickety

The Fixer
Location
Unknown
Car(s)
VW GTI
NATO says......

https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-...ar-live-12541713?postid=3599738#liveblog-body

"""NATO released estimates today around the number of Russian troops killed since Ukraine's invasion.

The alliance said between 7,000 to 15,000 Russian soldiers had lost their lives in the last four weeks of fighting, as fierce resistance denied Moscow the lightning victory it sought.

By way of comparison, Russia lost about 15,000 soldiers in Afghanistan over 10 years.

But in an estimate that is perhaps even more striking, NATO suggested a total of up to 40,000 Russian troops had been killed, wounded or taken prisoner - crucially, meaning they were no longer able to contribute to the country's efforts to achieve its military aims.

A senior NATO military official said the estimates were based on information from Ukrainian officials, what Russia has released — intentionally or not — and intelligence gathered from open sources. The official spoke on condition of anonymity under ground rules set by NATO."""



even if you half the figures what "plan" is this going to Putin??... 🤷‍♂️ ....🤦‍♂️
NATO is an unelected, unaccountable organization. Change my mind.
 

golfdave

Autocross Champion
Location
Scotland (U.K.)
Car(s)
Mk7 Golf GT Estate
NATO is an unelected, unaccountable organization. Change my mind.

Trying to stir it I see..... :ROFLMAO:

A group of countries get together to provide a collective security against the threat of the U.S.S.R./Soviet Union/Russia (whatever the feck you want to call them). This "club" was formed after WWII & in 1949

Now if you're of the opinion that such clubs should not exist, or that countries should not act together against the U.S.S.R./Soviet Union/Russia as they are of "no threat"......

Ukraine isn't in NATO.....Belarus (whose President sides with Putin) isn't in NATO, Finland, Sweden, & Bosnia have all have been threatened by Putin "if" they decide to join NATO...

Therefore Russia doesn't like independent sovereign countries joining NATO of their own free will..


....& I'll remind you of something I posted earlier.....

HOLODOMOR.....

Thats what Stalin did to Ukraine 90yrs ago..& what Putin is effectively doing today to Ukraine.



What's worse is the fact Putin has torn up the 1994 Budapest memorandum:-



Budapest Memorandum on Security Assurances - Wikipedia

Budapest Memorandums on Security Assurances, 1994 - Council on Foreign Relations (archive.org)

From the archived original copy:-
  1. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the Final Act of the Conference on Security and Cooperation in Europe, to respect the independence and sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine;

    2. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their obligation to refrain from the threat or use of force against the territorial integrity or political independence of Ukraine, and that none of their weapons will ever be used against Ukraine except in self-defence or otherwise in accordance with the Charter of the United Nations;

    3. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their commitment to Ukraine, in accordance with the principles of the Final Act of the Conference on Security and Cooperation in Europe, to refrain from economic coercion designed to subordinate to their own interest the exercise by Ukraine of the rights inherent in its sovereignty and thus to secure advantages of any kind;

    4. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm their commitment to seek immediate United Nations Security Council action to provide assistance to Ukraine, as a non-nuclear-weapon State party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, if Ukraine should become a victim of an act of aggression or an object of a threat of aggression in which nuclear weapons are used;


    5. The Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America reaffirm, in the case of Ukraine, their commitment not to use nuclear weapons against any non-nuclearweapon State party to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons, except in the case of an attack on themselves, their territories or dependent territories, their armed forces, or their allies, by such a State in association or alliance with a nuclear-weapon State;

    6. Ukraine, the Russian Federation, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America will consult in the event a situation arises that raises a question concerning these commitments.

    This Memorandum will become applicable upon signature.

    Signed in four copies having equal validity in the Ukrainian, English and Russian languages.
 
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