IS38 on automatic Golf (non-DSG)

[llibgrebnek]

Anyone have that combination? If so, how do you like it?


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[llibgrebnek]

So Unitronic said the trans won’t take the power - there is one answer.

Curious to see others’ input.


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[GTI Jake]

So Unitronic said the trans won’t take the power - there is one answer.

Curious to see others’ input.


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That and is20 is supposed to be the best turbo for 1.8T from everything I gathered

 

[Sparky589]

Raises hand.

Currently I'm running the APR Is38 file (91octane, thanks California) on a Shuenk Is38+. Performance is precisely what I was expecting given my research and the gearing of the transmission, that being that 2nd gear is you new best friend. Max torque comes online around ~3200rpm, and while certainly not sluggish below that coming from the Is20 tune I definitely felt that power was unsurprisingly more immediate on the smaller turbo.

Where you really notice it is on the freeway. Simply put Is38 doesn't stop pulling, whereas around ~70mph on the Is20 I could definitely notice it starting to slow down a bit. Transmission has seemingly been happy this whole time, no slippage and shifts as well as ever. Though do keep in mind that I don't even have 5k miles on this setup, so long-term reliability remains somewhat of a mystery.

For what it's worth unitronic is known to be more conservative with their tuning than APR. Though from what I believe, if the 09G was truly and obviously incapable of holding such power APR wouldn't have offered it on the platform either. That's all personal opinion of course.

 

[llibgrebnek]

Raises hand.

Currently I'm running the APR Is38 file (91octane, thanks California) on a Shuenk Is38+. Performance is precisely what I was expecting given my research and the gearing of the transmission, that being that 2nd gear is you new best friend. Max torque comes online around ~3200rpm, and while certainly not sluggish below that coming from the Is20 tune I definitely felt that power was unsurprisingly more immediate on the smaller turbo.

Where you really notice it is on the freeway. Simply put Is38 doesn't stop pulling, whereas around ~70mph on the Is20 I could definitely notice it starting to slow down a bit. Transmission has seemingly been happy this whole time, no slippage and shifts as well as ever. Though do keep in mind that I don't even have 5k miles on this setup, so long-term reliability remains somewhat of a mystery.

For what it's worth unitronic is known to be more conservative with their tuning than APR. Though from what I believe, if the 09G was truly and obviously incapable of holding such power APR wouldn't have offered it on the platform either. That's all personal opinion of course.

I’m hoping to hear back (privately) from APR on the subject of 09G durability.

I think (based on my powertrain and trans development experience at various car companies) that holding torque of clutching elements or headsets in the trans is not the issue. Rather it is the “braking” or synchronizing elements during high rpm/high power/high energy shifts where those elements have to rapidly but smoothly engage and suffer the instantaneous energy due to engine power coupled with inertial torque of synchronizing elements.

I wish there were a way to interrupt the spark momentarily during a shift event or open the wastegate until the shift completed...


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[tplociniak]

Don't have any input on the non dsg transmission, but the IS38 is excellent. I've had both the IS20 and IS38, and the IS38 is definitely more fun.

 

[Father Seth]

I’m hoping to hear back (privately) from APR on the subject of 09G durability.

I think (based on my powertrain and trans development experience at various car companies) that holding torque of clutching elements or headsets in the trans is not the issue. Rather it is the “braking” or synchronizing elements during high rpm/high power/high energy shifts where those elements have to rapidly but smoothly engage and suffer the instantaneous energy due to engine power coupled with inertial torque of synchronizing elements.


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Just curious, did you ever get any info on the 09G?
I have the auto too and if it can handle the is38 that'll be my upgrade choice.

 

[Father Seth]

With the Aisin trans I don’t think an IS38 would be any faster than an IS20. With the stock shift points you’d be shifting below the meat of the IS38’s gains.

I didn't even consider the stock auto shift points, but I see what you mean. It looks unless you're driving in manual and revving high there isn't much difference. I'm still pretty curious though.

 

[Sparky589]

I didn't even consider the stock auto shift points, but I see what you mean. It looks unless you're driving in manual and revving high there isn't much difference. I'm still pretty curious though.

Honestly not much of an issue so long as you drive with the paddles like I do. Only time I leave it in sport is when I'm pushing for flat out on straight line acceleration. For whatever reason the programming allows a higher redline in sport than in manual.

 

[Father Seth]

Honestly not much of an issue so long as you drive with the paddles like I do. Only time I leave it in sport is when I'm pushing for flat out on straight line acceleration. For whatever reason the programming allows a higher redline in sport than in manual.

I normally drive with the paddles too so it wouldn't affect me as much. I'm more so curious in how the transmission would be able to hold up given the torque bump.
Your sig says is20 but your comment says you're on an is38 now? How has it been doing since your last post?

 

[Sparky589]

I normally drive with the paddles too so it wouldn't affect me as much. I'm more so curious in how the transmission would be able to hold up given the torque bump.
Your sig says is20 but your comment says you're on an is38 now? How has it been doing since your last post?

Ah I should probably go and change that lol. Been holding out great so far, only issue was with the charge pipe coming from the intercooler popping off but that was a quick and easy fix. Still no slippage from the transmission to report and it shifts as good as ever.

I am coming up on 35k miles on the car (blessed be the short commute) and I'm planning on doing a preemptive ATF service on the transmission. Service manual says it's a 50k job, but with all the additional stress I've put the trans under I figure why not up the service interval.

 

[Tekk710]

I have an Is20. I've researched and talked to my local APR dealer. He said the engine should last with the IS38 without a tune. Due to the 1.8 engine internals being weaker than the GTi, it is best to stay with the stock ECU.

 

[MeltedSolid]

I have an Is20. I've researched and talked to my local APR dealer. He said the engine should last with the IS38 without a tune. Due to the 1.8 engine internals being weaker than the GTi, it is best to stay with the stock ECU.

Um... That's an odd suggestion from the dealer. The internals are weaker, but not that much weaker. IS38 with tune will be fine on the engine internals, some people have pushed around 400 ftlbs on the 1.8t without issue. You'll run out of fueling before internals.

 

[Sparky589]

I have an Is20. I've researched and talked to my local APR dealer. He said the engine should last with the IS38 without a tune. Due to the 1.8 engine internals being weaker than the GTi, it is best to stay with the stock ECU.

Correct me if I'm wrong but did your dealer seriously recommend running Is38 without accompanying software? I mean you technically can, but why on earth go through the trouble of a turbo swap if you won't even tune for it. Besides as melted pointed out, we run out of fueling before the internals give up. Now if I was running something like a boss 500 for all its worth with a uprated hpfp I'd probably start getting nervous about the crankshaft.

 

[TwinDad]

The stock shift points are actually quite high in sport mode or letting it go in manual mode. It is somewhere around 6,600-6,700. With the is20 is shift around 6,200 for best performance, so I think it will be fine