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Front LCA bushing options

scrllock

Autocross Champion
Location
MI
I've been through several iterations of these and wanted to put some info in one place. There's lots of info spread out, some of which I wish I'd seen before having my subframe dropped 4+ times trying different solutions.

Firstly, there are two bushings in the front control arm. The forward one is the camber bushing, if it's offset, you will primarily change the camber setting. The rear one is the caster bushing, and an offset will thus change caster.

Secondly, there are about 3 types of bushings on the market, with some variations and at least one hybrid option. Rubber (OEM), polyurethane, and pillow ball (aka spherical bearing, solid bushing, ball joint, et.). Rubber is generally the most compliant and comfortable, urethane somewhere in the middle, and solid joints are generally harsher (particularly as they wear out). In general, urethane is cheaper to manufacture than rubber, and more resistant to breakdown from chemical exposure, but also more prone to deforming from high temperatures and elongating.

Lastly, there are both full replacement steel and aluminum arms on the market.

Rear bushing (big / caster)

This is the one that has caused me the most pain. The first set I tried were solid polyurethane bushings and they failed extremely quickly (a few hundred miles). I had a set of polyurethane bushings from another brand sent as warranty replacements, but due to a long backorder, I opted to order a set of stiff poly bushings from another brand, this time with the caster offset. These too, developed signs of failure within a few thousand miles. My assumption is that the axial tension is just not a good fit for polyurethane materials, though it is important to note that I'm using an aluminum subframe which may have been coming into contact with one of the bushings. Given that superpro seems to now be selling different bushings specific to each subframe, I suspect that may be part of my issue. FWIW I've talked with numerous people who've had bushings in that spot fail.
Folks doing heavy track miles, like regulars at the 'Ring, have noted needing to replace their rear bushing very often, much more than any others on the car.
I'd also note that while using very stiff poly bushings, it is much more difficult to push the arm down in order to facilitate servicing the front suspension, either changing the ball joint, knuckle, or strut.

Rubber:
OEM Mk7 - rubber, large voids, very pliable - 5Q0407183L
OEM 8V A3/S3/RS3/Mk8 R - rubber, small voids, less pliable - 81A407183
OEM 8Y S3/RS3 / 8S TT/TTS/TTRS - rubber, minimal/no voids, even less pliable - 8S0407183B
BFI "RS3" bushings - these appear to be non-OE replicas of the 8S0407183B p/n: 81A407183G
Hardrace "hardened" rubber (looks similar to BFI): 7824

Polyurethane:
Superpro stock geometry, steel subframe: SPF4176K
Superpro stock geometry, aluminum subframe: SPF5592K
Superpro caster offset, steel subframe: SPF4178K
Superpro caster offset, aluminum subframe: SPF5594K
Whiteline caster offset: KCA499
Powerflex offset bushing: PFF85-802 (purple or black) This has an offset bore similar to the others, you can add (or remove) caster at install.
Powerflex adjustable race bushing: PFF85-802GBLK. This is the first "hybrid" style, where it utilizes a ball joint inside a urethane bushing, with a flange to assist in adjustment while it's on the car. I have read positive reports about this style in hard usage, they seem to hold up better than a straight poly option.

Solid:
JXB: PTFE-lined aurora or FK bearings. These do not offer any sealing and probably wouldn't be a great idea for a street car due to maintenance/rebuilds. I've heard nothing but great things from a performance standpoint, however. Given they're a standard FK/Aurora bearing you can likely find replacements from your preferred bearing vendor.
Hardrace: Q0077. These appear to be a sealed ball joint, which should have more longevity, though I haven't seen anyone use them.
ECS Monoball: 008083LA01. They claim to use a sealed OEM Mercedes ball joint, but it's ECS so YMMV. I think these are interesting given the claimed OEM quality, combined with the articulation of a ball joint.

Front bushing (small / camber)

These have been fairly painless for me, both the solid poly as well as original rubber.

Rubber:
OEM: 5Q0407182 - This part is shared across the mk7, 8v, 8s, and 8y audis. If someone sells an "RS3" version of this, well, you already have one.
Hardrace: 8943. This looks like it has similar geometry, allegedly harder rubber.

Polyurethane:
Superpro stock geometry: SPF4175K
Superpro adjustable camber: SPF5552K
Whiteline adjustable camber: KCA539
Powerflex stock geometry: PFF85-501
Powerflex adjustable camber: PFF85-501G While adjustable, it doesn't seem very practical to adjust them while installed on the car, especially with DSG models.

Solid:
JXB (sold as part of a kit with their caster bushings)
Hardrace: Q0076

Full arms


There are 3-4 styles of these. OEM or OEM-replica stamped steel arms with pre-pressed bushings, aftermarket, one-piece aluminum arms, and fully adjustable tubular arms.
If you're in the market for a verkline arm, I assume you know whether you need modified kinematics and you own a $2,000 subframe so you must know what you're doing. Similarly, if you're buying ECS

Superpro steel arms: TRC1070. Appear to be stock geometry, with simple poly replacements.
Whiteline steel arms: WA302. Same thing, just black bushings. It's unclear if whiteline sells these bushings separately, they don't list stock geometry bushings and when I warrantied mine, they sent me superpro parts.
Superpro aluminum arms: ALOY0018K. A bit of extra caster and camber, with hybrid ball-in-socket urethane ball joints. In theory these are an improvement all around. The set I ordered arrived with a damaged bushing and the ball joint holes were machined incorrectly. Superpro used to sell one or two other arms, which had clearance problems on some subframes, and were thus discontinued.
Whiteline aluminum arms: KTA252 / KTA 262. First part is +2deg caster, second is +2.5deg caster.
Hardrace aluminum arms: Q0804 / Q0822. Rubber/pillow ball, respectively. I'm interested in these, they look like they might be a relatively durable/lightweight option, but without the geometry changes in the arm itself.
034 RCO arms: 034-401-1068. These appear to offer more camber than the others, with a rubber bushings. If 034 rubber bushings and mounts weren't generally trash, this would look like a great option.

It's worth noting that all of the OE steel arms have the same dimensions. Only difference from what I've found is the bushings themselves.

TL;DR
Personally, I wouldn't touch poly caster bushings again. The newer audi bushings I'm using have plenty of feedback, are obviously durable, and are pliable enough to make strut replacements bearable. I would use a good set of strut mounts/plates to add caster if needed. No one sells rubber offset bushings afaik.

The cookie-cutter option, at least for STH/STU autocross guys, is the "RS3" rear bushing combined with the powerflex offset camber bushing. My experience with having poly bushings on nearly every joint is that they hold up pretty well to torsional or radial loads, which would suit the front bushing.


If I'm missing anything notable, please let me know, especially if you've tried it and had different results. Thanks to @GoatAutomotive, @DerHase , @xXDavidCXx and others for their experiences and info in their threads. I'm especially curious if anyone has tried the new superpro bushings that are subframe-specific. I'd love to find out how those were revised.
 

MrTSI

New member
Location
Canada
Car(s)
2018 GTI 6MT
Thanks for putting this list together. LCAs / bushings are on my mod list for next year, so I am eager to read about people's experiences. The way the LCAs articulate seems to point to a ball-style rear bushing as being the best solution for solid mounting while permitting the necessary movement.

I would like to add the KCA462 from Whiteline: https://whitelineperformance.com/products/kca462-bushing-kit
The kit seems to include a poly front bushing, a rear sealed monoball set within an offset poly bushing, and a knuckle insert for the tie-rod (not sure what this is supposed to do, so please enlighten me if you have insight or experience to share)

The price is certainly attractive. I might take a flyer on these in the spring when the weather is nicer and I have more time.
 

scrllock

Autocross Champion
Location
MI
Thanks for putting this list together. LCAs / bushings are on my mod list for next year, so I am eager to read about people's experiences. The way the LCAs articulate seems to point to a ball-style rear bushing as being the best solution for solid mounting while permitting the necessary movement.

I would like to add the KCA462 from Whiteline: https://whitelineperformance.com/products/kca462-bushing-kit
The kit seems to include a poly front bushing, a rear sealed monoball set within an offset poly bushing, and a knuckle insert for the tie-rod (not sure what this is supposed to do, so please enlighten me if you have insight or experience to share)

The price is certainly attractive. I might take a flyer on these in the spring when the weather is nicer and I have more time.
The knuckle insert is for bump steer correction. I don't think I've seen anyone try these, so let us know how it goes!
 

geokilla

Go Kart Champion
Location
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Car(s)
2018 VW GTI DSG
Thanks for putting this list together. LCAs / bushings are on my mod list for next year, so I am eager to read about people's experiences. The way the LCAs articulate seems to point to a ball-style rear bushing as being the best solution for solid mounting while permitting the necessary movement.

I would like to add the KCA462 from Whiteline: https://whitelineperformance.com/products/kca462-bushing-kit
The kit seems to include a poly front bushing, a rear sealed monoball set within an offset poly bushing, and a knuckle insert for the tie-rod (not sure what this is supposed to do, so please enlighten me if you have insight or experience to share)

The price is certainly attractive. I might take a flyer on these in the spring when the weather is nicer and I have more time.
I would avoid Whiteline unless you know what they're doing. I was going to call it a day once I installed all my suspension parts but I'm unhappy with how the car rides right now so I'm looking to get rid of them. Looking for that OEM+ solution so I think 81A407183 bushings are what I need with my OEM control arms. Friends don't let friends buy Whiteline.
 

tigeo

Autocross Champion
 

MrTSI

New member
Location
Canada
Car(s)
2018 GTI 6MT
Nice demo of the SP Duroball. (And cool channel - subbed)
It seems that several people have had issues with them separating. To SuperPro's credit, they also seem to have dealt promptly with warranty claims. I'm not sure about that dust shield design though. I feel like a lot of crap could get in there and kill the ball; at least in places where they dump copious amounts of salt and grit on the roads (i.e. here). Hence the interest in the Whiteline kit - the sphericals seem to be sealed.
 

MrTSI

New member
Location
Canada
Car(s)
2018 GTI 6MT
I would avoid Whiteline unless you know what they're doing. I was going to call it a day once I installed all my suspension parts but I'm unhappy with how the car rides right now so I'm looking to get rid of them. Looking for that OEM+ solution so I think 81A407183 bushings are what I need with my OEM control arms. Friends don't let friends buy Whiteline.
I looked up your build in previous threads. Your frustration with Whiteline makes total sense. I do think your VW tech is right though, and that most of the noise and harshness is due to the strut mounts. Your B14s probably aren't helping either, at least with harshness. I live about 30km south of Montreal and while coilovers appeal to me, our roads with their potholes, dips and undulations have made me reconsider.

I haven't seen much (positive or negative) written about the Whiteline KTA252 arms, which seem to use the same style sealed spherical bushings as the kit I was considering. I will definitely weigh your comments in my decision though.
 

geokilla

Go Kart Champion
Location
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Car(s)
2018 VW GTI DSG
I looked up your build in previous threads. Your frustration with Whiteline makes total sense. I do think your VW tech is right though, and that most of the noise and harshness is due to the strut mounts. Your B14s probably aren't helping either, at least with harshness. I live about 30km south of Montreal and while coilovers appeal to me, our roads with their potholes, dips and undulations have made me reconsider.

I haven't seen much (positive or negative) written about the Whiteline KTA252 arms, which seem to use the same style sealed spherical bushings as the kit I was considering. I will definitely weigh your comments in my decision though.
I think if I fix the positive rake and have the B14s adjusted even higher than they currently are then it'll reduce the harshness even more. It won't alleviate all the issues I have, but if it reduces the chances of my passengers getting car sick, then it's worth. It should still be lower than stock since the coilover springs are physically shorter than the OEM coil springs according to the mechanic who did the install.

I think if you do decide to install coils, go for the Bilstein B16 or something similar. I thought the B14s would be good enough but lesson learned.
 

tigeo

Autocross Champion
Lots of folks happily running B14s without issue.
 

geokilla

Go Kart Champion
Location
Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Car(s)
2018 VW GTI DSG
Lots of folks happily running B14s without issue.
Maybe it's because of how bad our roads are here. I recently went to Vegas and I'd be happy with B14s there if my car was set up properly and didn't have those secondary movements. But in Toronto and Montreal, you better think long and hard. Large potholes and bumps everywhere.
 

tigeo

Autocross Champion
Maybe it's because of how bad our roads are here. I recently went to Vegas and I'd be happy with B14s there if my car was set up properly and didn't have those secondary movements. But in Toronto and Montreal, you better think long and hard. Large potholes and bumps everywhere.
Sure, lowering a car whether on springs/dampers or coilovers which reduces bump travel and shitty roads is never a good combo. Get them as high as you can to max out the compression travel is best you can do. The B16s are basically the same just with adjustable rebound damping, not going to do much different than you have.
 
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