Exploring Other Swaybar Solutions

[BurgerGuy]

I realize there have been threads on what sway bar(s) to buy and all that nonsense, but I did not really see any that cover what I'm looking for. It has been nearly a year now and I've sourced an issue with my car that is associated with the front sway bar. As I have been unable to fix this problem, I'm going to replace the hardware/component altogether and get a different bar. In doing so, I'd like to maintain the "balance" of the car which means I'll also be getting a rear bar.

H&R has been on my mind since they, like a handful of other companies that make sway bars, use the OEM brackets to mount the bar to the car. They feature a 26mm/22mm kit and a 28mm/24mm kit. Would it be unwise to get the 26mm front and 24mm rear bar instead of one of their bundles? The 22mm seems a little small in comparison to the 26mm front bar, but the steel strength, bends, treatment, blah blah blah all add up to how the bar performs.

In addition, the Volkswagen Racing bars (26mm/23mm) seemed somewhat attractive aside from the price tag. I'm looking for some insight here. I do auto cross the car, but haven't for some time because of the problem I encountered with the car which I've been trying to figure out and fix for some time.

 

[Simmsled]

You still on H&R Supersports & Koni Sports?

 

[BurgerGuy]

Yep.

 

[willems45]

i just put in a 26mm h&r to go with my 24mm rear and it handles really nice. i haven't got to autocross with it yet though

 

[Simmsled]

As one of my mentors once told me, there is no 'wrong' valving you can put in a damper. The same holds true with sways. It just depends on what you're going for.

I purchased the 24mm H&R rear first (and have been using it with stock front). It saturates the rear suspension on 'hard' way too much & too early. It will wear the rear tires at an accelerated rate. Switching to 'soft' improved the overall grip and is much improved. Pairing the 24 with either of the fronts will do. If you are going to be doing more autocross, I'd say the 26 would be a better fit. If you are going to be doing some higher speed track days, get the 28.

 

[BurgerGuy]

In other words, the 28mm bar will provide more stability paired with the 24mm rear whereas the 26mm bar will exhibit a larger decrease in body roll at the rear, correct? With a 27mm bar fitting up front I would imagine another 1mm diameter wouldn't cause problems.

Does anyone have the 28mm H&R front sway bar installed on their car? It sounds like a nice option, but I'm concerned about the mounting hardware used on it as that's where I've run into issues with the ones I have now.

 

[Simmsled]

In other words, the 28mm bar will provide more stability paired with the 24mm rear whereas the 26mm bar will exhibit a larger decrease in body roll at the rear, correct? With a 27mm bar fitting up front I would imagine another 1mm diameter wouldn't cause problems.

Does anyone have the 28mm H&R front sway bar installed on their car? It sounds like a nice option, but I'm concerned about the mounting hardware used on it as that's where I've run into issues with the ones I have now.

The 28mm will have more roll resistance than the 26mm.

Remember, the H&R bars are SOLID. The APR/Hotchkis bars are hollow.
Big difference.

 

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[bostonaudi]

The 28mm will have more roll resistance than the 26mm.

Remember, the H&R bars are SOLID. The APR/Hotchkis bars are hollow.
Big difference.

I'm not sure I'd do a 28mm solid up front, that's too much bar, and will limit your max camber. Lots of front camber and lots of front bar do not mix, depending on what you are doing additional front camber is usually good and you don't want to be limited by a big fat front bar. The APR/Hotchkiss 27mm front hollow bar gives plenty of range of stiffness, even at min you can run fairly high camber without issues.

OP, can you enlighten us as to what problem you were having with the original front bar? I agree you should upgrade both to keep car balanced. I've found the APR pair does a great job at that. Most bars at full stiff are useless, as said it locks things up too much, the first two settings on the APR bars are both useful.

 

[BurgerGuy]

It seems the rear bolts on the front sway bar brackets don't like to stay tight. I've found that because of the cut washer design used it gets crushed over time after being loosened/tightened for whatever reason. Because the bolts aren't tight, it creates this horrendous cracking/clunk/pop sound under hard cornering and/or braking. I've replaced the washers and brackets and the same thing is basically happening again. As you attempt to tighten the rear bolt the head eventually ends up "sinking" into the rear washer which doesn't allow it to get completely tight. It's unfortunate because the bars are great, but the hardware has been problematic.

Here's the thread I started when the problem began: http://golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=149972

I decided to bite the bullet and pick up the 28mm/24mm bars from H&R last night. If I run both of them on the softest setting or perhaps the rear on stiff and front on soft it'll allow that extra compliance for camber. My suspension setup isn't anything out of the ordinary aside from Koni Yellows, H&R Supersports, and the WALK. Outside of the changes the WALK makes to the caster there's no difference from what an alignment from the dealership calls for. There's also the Unibrace XB/UB on the car.

Boston (or anyone else for that matter), would you say the 26mm bar paired with the 24mm bar would be a better solution instead of the 28mm bar and 24mm bar? Let me know so I can cancel my order before it ships and wait for the 26mm bars to come back in stock.

 

[Simmsled]

I'm not sure I'd do a 28mm solid up front, that's too much bar, and will limit your max camber. Lots of front camber and lots of front bar do not mix, depending on what you are doing additional front camber is usually good and you don't want to be limited by a big fat front bar. The APR/Hotchkiss 27mm front hollow bar gives plenty of range of stiffness, even at min you can run fairly high camber without issues.

OP, can you enlighten us as to what problem you were having with the original front bar? I agree you should upgrade both to keep car balanced. I've found the APR pair does a great job at that. Most bars at full stiff are useless, as said it locks things up too much, the first two settings on the APR bars are both useful.

x2

It seems the rear bolts on the front sway bar brackets don't like to stay tight. I've found that because of the cut washer design used it gets crushed over time after being loosened/tightened for whatever reason. Because the bolts aren't tight, it creates this horrendous cracking/clunk/pop sound under hard cornering and/or braking. I've replaced the washers and brackets and the same thing is basically happening again. As you attempt to tighten the rear bolt the head eventually ends up "sinking" into the rear washer which doesn't allow it to get completely tight. It's unfortunate because the bars are great, but the hardware has been problematic.

Here's the thread I started when the problem began: http://golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=149972

I decided to bite the bullet and pick up the 28mm/24mm bars from H&R last night. If I run both of them on the softest setting or perhaps the rear on stiff and front on soft it'll allow that extra compliance for camber. My suspension setup isn't anything out of the ordinary aside from Koni Yellows, H&R Supersports, and the WALK. Outside of the changes the WALK makes to the caster there's no difference from what an alignment from the dealership calls for. There's also the Unibrace XB/UB on the car.

Have you tried Loctite on the swaybar bolts?
Also, what end-links are you using?

 

[BurgerGuy]

Have you tried Loctite on the swaybar bolts?
Also, what end-links are you using?

Stock end links which have also been replaced. In addition, I also built a set of adjustable end links which did not fix the problem and also ran into clearance issues with the axle because of the ball joints shape. Loctite would work if the rear bolts/nuts could get to the specified torque. I can keep turning them with no change in resistance and the bolt itself is not turning as I use an allen key to hold it in place when tightening.

 

[BurgerGuy]

So, canceled the order for the H&R bars and am waiting for the 26mm bar to be re-stocked. Would the general populous (Bostonaudi and Simmsled) agree that the 26mm/24mm setup would be the most ideal solution?

 

[16whitemk7]

I was thinking of the 28/24 but now I am also interested if the 26/24mm would be a better pair...granted I don't auto cross...but I do do a lot of spirited driving.

 

[bostonaudi]

The 26 solid front should be OK, but as said depends how rest of car is setup and where its being run. Bars are tuning devices to help control roll, and big bars can add serious compromises. I generally wouldn't consider a bigger front bar at all until an LSD is installed, otherwise too much front inside wheelspin (and its bad enough with a stock front bar and a trigger happy chipped turbo motor). An LSD is the place to start, then you have a foundation to build other mods on and start making the car respectably fast.

I'd still try to tackle getting your current APR bar working, they are good and sized right. I've had good luck w/original supplied nuts and bolts. You don't need to tighten the nuts super tight, just enough so bars are snug and not have bolt head try to sink down through the washer.