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E85

DubtecV2

Touring Car Newbie
Location
Jenks
Those of you in the United States may have heard of E85 - it's a new fuel souce being promoted by General Motors (noteably Chevrolet). It's 85% Ethanol at 15% petroleum (gasoline). Ethanol (corn oil) is drinkable alcohol, that's thy they put 15% gasoline in the mix - so people won't drink it. E85 has a very high octane rating (more on this below). It's also cheaper than regular (87 octane) gasoline, and has fewer emissions).

Anyway, I've done a lot of research and a little experiment. Those of you who have heard of E85 may have also heard that vehicles must be outfitted to use it. In some cases, this is wrong. All the manufacturer does to 'outfit' a vehicle is make sure the fuel lines don't contain certain materials (most cars since the mid 1990's don't) and to add another sensor for the air/fuel ratio (the A/R must be altered depending on what the ethanol-gasoline mixture is).

The truth is, like stated above, most vehicles prior to 1995, do not contain the certain materials that ethanol can burn through (don't remember them exactly). Also, the ECU of modern turbocharged vehicles should be able to compensate enough to safely run a certain amount of E85 with no harm. I read an article written by a Subaru WRX owner who has been running E85 for the past three years with no ill effects. He has upgraded his fuel pump (because E85 burn faster than gasoline) and now run 95% E85 with no ill effects. I read elsewhere that an STi owner dropped his 1/4mile time by half a second just switching from 100% 93 to 50% 93, 50% E85.

After researching for around a week I decided to conduct my own little experiment. I was going to run E85 in my GTI...........

One week ago --> I was almost out of gasoline, so I figured now was the perfect time to try some E85. I had roughly 1.5 gallons left in my tank. A little nervous knowing the Ethanol can burn through certain materials, I didn't want to get the E85-gasoline ratio too high just yet. I put in $10 @ $2.99ish/gallon of 93 octane and $5 @ $2.61/gallon of E85. After doing the calculations, I determined that I had roughly 25% ethanol in my gas tank, which should be completely safe. If you do the math, this is about 95 octane or so. A 50/50 ratio should be closer to 98 or 99 octane - almost race gas levels!

At first I noticed no change in driveability or performance. But, after a few miles of high0rpm blasts, I started to notice the turbo spooling a little sooner than the vehicle was somewhat quicker. Still no ill effects. My gas mileage did go down because the E85 burn faster than regular gasoline, but the reduced cost more than made up for it. Long atory short, the car ran just fine on 25% ethanol, with a little boost in performance.

I'm currently out of state where E85 is not available so I can't continue my research until I arrive home, but if anyone would like to conduct their own testing, feel free. I plan on filling my tank up 100% with 93 octane then when I get down to 1/2 tank filling it up with E85 for an octane rating around 99.

There is one problem - E85 isn't available everywhere. Florida, for example, has banned any readily-available fuel source that has more than 10% ethanol.

This should be perfect for those who are wanting a lower gasoline bill, a little boost in performance for everyday driving or that occasional track visit, etc.

-Evan



P.S. For legailty sake, use at you own risk. I can not and will not be responsible for any harm you may cause to you, your vehicle or its warranty.
 

dwl137

Touring Car Champion
Location
Pennsylvania
The other problem with E85 is that you get reduced MPG on it. So the debate is, is the reduced price outweighing the reduced MPG?
 

Freek

Formula 5000 Driver
Location
back in ATL
also here is a little more info on E85...alittle more technical

LINK!

it also shows the # of gas stations that have E85..its current as of may 2006
 

car

Autocross Champion
Location
Central Illinois
dwl137 said:
The other problem with E85 is that you get reduced MPG on it. So the debate is, is the reduced price outweighing the reduced MPG?

Yep, good point, and who says ethanol prices are going to stay anywhere near low?
Another thing to consider is that, while ethanol is a renewable resource, it's not easy to transport or store (likes to take on water) and has a limited range for where to produce it. If you look at how much oil prices have gone up vs. how much ethanol prices have gone up, ethanol has gone up substantially more over the past few months. That's also part of the reason gas prices are on the rise. If you can't get enough (federally-required) ethanol to the coasts, away from where it's produced, up go the gas prices.
 

davis_grad

Touring Car Champion
Location
Marin
car said:
Yep, good point, and who says ethanol prices are going to stay anywhere near low?

Having studied the economics of non-renewable resources, I can tell you that any substitute designed to replace a dwindling, non-renewable resource ends up costing the same as the resource it was developed to replace. In other words, if Ethanol ends up replacing Petroleum, it will end up costing the same amount (hypothetical example).
 

DubtecV2

Touring Car Newbie
Location
Jenks
RJS5689 said:
umm.. i may be wrong but GM markets this as "flex fuel" correct? if so, the flex fuel vehicles all have LESS power than their gas counterparts. Oh and only 6 stations in NY lol

Yes, it is GM. Does GM market any Flex Fuel vehicles that are turbocharged and/or would take advantage of higher octane gasoline? No.
 

dc_candy

Drag Race Newbie
Location
DC
davis_grad said:
Having studied the economics of non-renewable resources, I can tell you that any substitute designed to replace a dwindling, non-renewable resource ends up costing the same as the resource it was developed to replace. In other words, if Ethanol ends up replacing Petroleum, it will end up costing the same amount (hypothetical example).

Even if the costs were relatively the same, it would lessen out dependence on foreign oil. All the issues with Iran and Nigeria (among others) cause oil futures to rise, but if we used less foreign oil, these fluctuations would have less of an affect.
 

dennykrane

Autocross Champion
Location
NY, NY
dc_candy said:
Even if the costs were relatively the same, it would lessen out dependence on foreign oil. All the issues with Iran and Nigeria (among others) cause oil futures to rise, but if we used less foreign oil, these fluctuations would have less of an affect.
i may be wrong, but i remember reading somewhere that only about 15-20% of our oil is from a foreign source. imo the conflicts have been used as an excuse more than they are a legitimate reason for the price increses of late.
but again, i may be wrong... cant remember where i read that figure.
 
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