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20 Squared, Review: Bad Experience

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frankf0k168

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
CA
Thinking about ordering from 20 squared? Think again, this here is not just a review but for me a personal horror story.

I called 20 squared to ask about the Eurojet R32 Style Turbo Back Exhaust, after receiving some minor attitude due to me asking many questions/concerns about the emissions, I was told that they had only one of them in stock left so act fast.

Next few days after my order, I see on the vortex forums that they have a few left for sale even though I bought the "last one." Did not appreciate being lied to but fine, its sales after all, forgiven.

I ordered on the 25th of August, and waited until the 10th of September and still no package. I called to ask for help to track the package and was pretty much told to do it myself, flicking me away, and that I would receive a call in 20 minutes since I kept insisting for assistance as I had no clue what my order number was. My order was already late and this is how they treated me. Person on the phone told me my name would be my password and to use my email as my user ID. This was never told to me during my order, and person acted as if I am being a big inconvenience to him. I still went online to try to track it myself anyways.

I went online and figured out how to log in finally and saw my order status as still being "processing." despite having two weeks pass by since the order date. Recalled the person, and the same guy told me that he is no longer at his computer anymore and is now off his shift without ever calling me back despite telling me he would after 20 minutes. He said he would get back to me ASAP first thing Monday. Alright.

The item on Monday did show as being shipped finally, but the person did not get back to me. Small things like that do not matter to me, but it may for others. I am not a picky person. At this point, I was just happy that my item was on its way and did not care or want to deal with them anymore as I felt I did not get treated as a customer but as a liability or something.

But the problem did not end there.

When the item finally did come almost 2.5 weeks later, the cat ordered with it was not even there. I found this out when the mechanic (awesome guy) installed the exhaust and told me it was catless. After visually seeing this for myself, I was pretty upset. Called 20 squared, and was told that they will get back to me when they try to contact Eurojet about this. I sat there wondering why they need to contact Eurojet when I bought it from them, but still waited anyways for a week and a half. After a week and a half, I still received NO answer. I am already frustrated as I did want the cat, but figured just take a simple quick refund and keep things short. You would think that since your order is delivered late that they would quickly correct their second mistake.

After the week and a half of them telling me to wait and still no answer from them, I was fed up of waiting and called them again as I felt I gave them a reasonable amount of time to get back to me. Recalled them and when explaining to them the situation of my item did not come with the cat, the person speaking to me gave me the impression that they never even attempted to contact Eurojet because he had no clue what I was talking about. This pissed me off and made me feel like I waited for nothing, no progress on my issue. The guy eventually tells me to go now take pictures of the item to show that there is no cat so they can contact Eurojet with the pictures so they can request a refund from them and THEN they will issue me a refund or "send me a cat" (after my system is already installed by now) Also when questioning why the cat did not come with the system, the person asks me if I knew what a cat was. Pretty degrading comment that pissed me off some more.

When asked why do I need to deal with eurojet's response if they were the ones that sold me the part, the person, still with an attitude stated that because EJ is their dropshipper. Amazing. I asked once more as to why do I need to deal with EJ, and was given a smart remark by the representative asking me a rhetorical question along the lines of "do you need to deal with Eurojet? Are you the one having to contact them to deal with them?" This really pissed me off. At this point I am trying to laugh the situation off, but I couldn't. I just sat there steaming with disbelief with my face FEELING red.

Lied to about item being last one in stock. item delayed for a week and a half and no answer, received item with no cat when it came late, no responses everytime I was told that they would, told to take pictures of the item showing that there is no cat as if I am no inconvenienced and treated poorly enough already, disrespected by person asking me rhetorical questions and questioning me if I knew what a cat was, chasing them every single week and a half or so ending the phone calls steaming, given attitude the whole way through despite their multiple mistakes. Every time I look at my R32 exhaust or smelling the catless exhaust when windows are down, instead of smiling, I think about 20 sqaured and frown. Thanks a lot for taking 1030 or so from me and flipping me off the whole way through and making my buying experience a nightmare. Others on this forum marvel at their R32 rear set up and smile, instead for me I frown.

P.S. I still do not have a refund for my cat, never received an apology or compensation, which is expected. After being told to go take pictures of the cat and they will then decide to either give me refund or to send me a cat, I just filed a claim with my credit card company instead for the portion of the cat. I am not going to waste more time being disrespected and being ignored and flicked away when I am the one trying to fix their mistakes. Worst buying experience ever, and I am not even a picky guy. Who knew a buying experience can be this memorable. 20 Squared, thumbs down.
 

Moses

Go Kart Champion
Location
New England
i just read that whole thing.

cliff notes:

-20 squared lied to make a sale
-20 squared took forever to ship the exhaust
-there was many frustrating phone calls
-confusion
-exhaust ships, more phone conversations
-no cat, more phone conversations
-20 squared is not helpful
-20 squared needs to go through EJ for a refund but is taking their time
- phone calls
- confusion
- still no refund
-20 squared is still giving attitude

cool story bra
 
Location
Socal
I gave 20squared a chance at Waterfest16. I drove 3000miles to the show, they lie to me about a boost gauge setup, I buy it, then get back home and see that they are sellig it cheaper online. Didn't come with I instructions, but nonetheless. Boost tap was useless as well. I was told,"deal with it". I made it work. Apparently, 20squared is under new management this year...can't tell if it's for the best.

-FF
 

John/Cue\Publik

Speed>stance
Location
Lake Stevens, WA
Car(s)
2007 Rabbit
not gonna say I'm thrilled with their customer service but with significant prodding things eventually happen. That being said I chose them to build a transmission for me last July because their workmanship is supposed to be excellent. Will have to verify that on Monday when it gets here. That being said between back ordered diff bearings, the postal service causing major hiccups in the build, and BSH's Quaife wholesaler making a major mistake leaving me with an extra diff the whole ordeal has been a bit of a nightmare from both my side and 20 squared's side. I can't blame everything on them and as a vendor myself I can understand what went on at some level but it wasn't my best experience.
 

John@20Squared

Ready to race!
Location
Burlington, NJ
Car(s)
02 Jetta
We certainly love feedback, regardless of what it is, so thank you for posting. However, I'll interject and hopefully shed some light on your comments and the situation.

I called 20 squared to ask about the Eurojet R32 Style Turbo Back Exhaust, after receiving some minor attitude due to me asking many questions/concerns about the emissions, I was told that they had only one of them in stock left so act fast.

Next few days after my order, I see on the vortex forums that they have a few left for sale even though I bought the "last one." Did not appreciate being lied to but fine, its sales after all, forgiven.
I am sorry if you got the impression that I was giving you attitude, I apologize. I love customer's questions, as it shows they actually care and are trying to learn about the product before they purchase. Customers who don't fully educate themselves on a purchase before-hand, are the ones that regret it after.

I ordered on the 25th of August, and waited until the 10th of September and still no package. I called to ask for help to track the package and was pretty much told to do it myself, flicking me away, and that I would receive a call in 20 minutes since I kept insisting for assistance as I had no clue what my order number was. My order was already late and this is how they treated me. Person on the phone told me my name would be my password and to use my email as my user ID. This was never told to me during my order, and person acted as if I am being a big inconvenience to him. I still went online to try to track it myself anyways.

I went online and figured out how to log in finally and saw my order status as still being "processing." despite having two weeks pass by since the order date. Recalled the person, and the same guy told me that he is no longer at his computer anymore and is now off his shift without ever calling me back despite telling me he would after 20 minutes. He said he would get back to me ASAP first thing Monday. Alright.
In order for an order to be placed on our website, each and every customer is created a customer account, whether the order is placed online or over the phone. I explained to you that the log-in is your email address your provided me and the password is always pre-set to be your last name/first initial. If you had difficulty after that, you can always use the password recovery tool or just give us a ring to recover the information. This information is given to customers' who place a phone order at the end of the conversation, each and every time.

Our online system shows every order as "processing" if you don't click fully into the order, before the order has shipped. In order to get real-time status information, you must click the "Review Orders/Track Packages" button near the right hand side of the Orders page to get the real time status.

The item on Monday did show as being shipped finally, but the person did not get back to me. Small things like that do not matter to me, but it may for others. I am not a picky person. At this point, I was just happy that my item was on its way and did not care or want to deal with them anymore as I felt I did not get treated as a customer but as a liability or something.

But the problem did not end there.

When the item finally did come almost 2.5 weeks later, the cat ordered with it was not even there. I found this out when the mechanic (awesome guy) installed the exhaust and told me it was catless. After visually seeing this for myself, I was pretty upset. Called 20 squared, and was told that they will get back to me when they try to contact Eurojet about this. I sat there wondering why they need to contact Eurojet when I bought it from them, but still waited anyways for a week and a half. After a week and a half, I still received NO answer. I am already frustrated as I did want the cat, but figured just take a simple quick refund and keep things short. You would think that since your order is delivered late that they would quickly correct their second mistake.
Most of Eurojet's exhaust systems are drop shipped directly from Eurojet in WA. After you called letting me know of this, I first verified that a cat was purchased with your exhaust and then verified to make sure our Purchase Order to Eurojet was correct. Both of them were correct, therefore I had to contact Eurojet to find our why we both paid for a cat and you're reporting that the system did not have a cat included with it. At which point, I contacted Eurojet and was awaiting their response.

After the week and a half of them telling me to wait and still no answer from them, I was fed up of waiting and called them again as I felt I gave them a reasonable amount of time to get back to me. Recalled them and when explaining to them the situation of my item did not come with the cat, the person speaking to me gave me the impression that they never even attempted to contact Eurojet because he had no clue what I was talking about. This pissed me off and made me feel like I waited for nothing, no progress on my issue. The guy eventually tells me to go now take pictures of the item to show that there is no cat so they can contact Eurojet with the pictures so they can request a refund from them and THEN they will issue me a refund or "send me a cat" (after my system is already installed by now) Also when questioning why the cat did not come with the system, the person asks me if I knew what a cat was. Pretty degrading comment that pissed me off some more.
As I stated above, since the system was drop shipped from Eurojet, we did not actually ship the system from our warehouse, so there was no way for us to physically verify what exactly was shipped to you. The logical next step would be to contact Eurojet, which is what was done. Since the follow up from Eurojet included a request for photo's, that exactly what we requested from you. Eurojet's records indicate that your system was shipped with a catalytic converter, as does our Purchase Order to Eurojet and our Invoice from Eurojet for your system. Considering our records indicate you were shipped a system with a cat, we just wanted to verify that the system did/does not have a cat. We didn't think it was a very difficult task that doesn't really require much work or even a jack/lift to accomplish.

We were/are willing to work through this situation, but we've requested information from you and it has never been received. Unfortunately we can't work for you if you don't work with us.

When asked why do I need to deal with eurojet's response if they were the ones that sold me the part, the person, still with an attitude stated that because EJ is their dropshipper. Amazing. I asked once more as to why do I need to deal with EJ, and was given a smart remark by the representative asking me a rhetorical question along the lines of "do you need to deal with Eurojet? Are you the one having to contact them to deal with them?" This really pissed me off. At this point I am trying to laugh the situation off, but I couldn't. I just sat there steaming with disbelief with my face FEELING red.
You were not being asked to deal with Eurojet, ever. However, it is entirely necessary for US to deal with Eurojet in a situation like this. The more each party cooperates, the better the situation always turns out. When information is requested from Eurojet regarding the system that is installed in your vehicle, there is no other choice for us but to request that information from you. I don't believe the commentary is entirely accurate above, either.

P.S. I still do not have a refund for my cat, never received an apology or compensation, which is expected. After being told to go take pictures of the cat and they will then decide to either give me refund or to send me a cat, I just filed a claim with my credit card company instead for the portion of the cat. I am not going to waste more time being disrespected and being ignored and flicked away when I am the one trying to fix their mistakes. Worst buying experience ever, and I am not even a picky guy. Who knew a buying experience can be this memorable. 20 Squared, thumbs down.
You have not received a refund or a downpipe including a catalytic converter because we have not yet received the information requested. Once that is done, we'll move forward. I am sure that if the mistake was made on Eurojet's end, a brand new downpipe with a cat would be sent out, despite the fact that the downpipe being returned is already used.

In the end, mistakes DO happen. If it is verified that there was a mistake with shipping, we will absolutely 110% correct the situation, whether it be refund or send you a cat'd downpipe. There is no question about that. However, when we work with you and there is no information sent to us to move forward, unfortunately there is nothing that we can do when that information is being requested from the manufacturer, when all of our records indicate that the system you were shipped was a cat'd system.
 

John@20Squared

Ready to race!
Location
Burlington, NJ
Car(s)
02 Jetta
I gave 20squared a chance at Waterfest16. I drove 3000miles to the show, they lie to me about a boost gauge setup, I buy it, then get back home and see that they are sellig it cheaper online. Didn't come with I instructions, but nonetheless. Boost tap was useless as well. I was told,"deal with it". I made it work. Apparently, 20squared is under new management this year...can't tell if it's for the best.

-FF

20squared is not under new management. PM sent, as I'm not quite sure how you feel as if you were "lied to". Instructions for that product are available on Eurojet's website and across just about all the forums.
 

John@20Squared

Ready to race!
Location
Burlington, NJ
Car(s)
02 Jetta
not gonna say I'm thrilled with their customer service but with significant prodding things eventually happen. That being said I chose them to build a transmission for me last July because their workmanship is supposed to be excellent. Will have to verify that on Monday when it gets here. That being said between back ordered diff bearings, the postal service causing major hiccups in the build, and BSH's Quaife wholesaler making a major mistake leaving me with an extra diff the whole ordeal has been a bit of a nightmare from both my side and 20 squared's side. I can't blame everything on them and as a vendor myself I can understand what went on at some level but it wasn't my best experience.
John,

I certainly can feel for your situation, as there were a number of things completely out of our control that held up your trans. build. The bearings being backordered from Volkswagen's direct hub as well as the wrong differential that was supplied to us made for a definite long process that could have been way quicker. It's something that we do on a VERY regular basis and almost never takes as long as it did in your case, but as you said, you can completely understand the timeframe considering the circumstances that we were dealing with. I can tell you that had we had the correct differential from the start, the trans. would have been in your hands about 1.5 weeks earlier, but that is neither here nor there as it was a wholesale suppliers fault.

We did overnight a differential to us from Quaife USA for you to get the job finished as quickly as humanly possible. One again, I'm sorry that it took longer than expected, but I am positive you understand considering the circumstances.
 

frankf0k168

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
CA
Stop "Defending"

It's a bit odd how you address the vague situations with a reply but no replies certain issues. So no reply on why I was told the item I bought was the last item I bought when it obviously wasn't?

"I am sorry if you got the impression that I was giving you attitude, I apologize. I love customer's questions, as it shows they actually care and are trying to learn about the product before they purchase. Customers who don't fully educate themselves on a purchase before-hand, are the ones that regret it after."

I was definitely given attitude, and at first I thought I was imagining this, but with more interactions with your company, the same attitude was given. And if you are sorry that you "gave the impression" that attitude was given, perhaps you should not give out that impression in the first place or to your future clients. I didn't just get the impression I got out of no where.

"I explained to you that the log-in is your email address your provided me and the password is always pre-set to be your last name/first initial. If you had difficulty after that, you can always use the password recovery tool or just give us a ring to recover the information."

I don't like playing the he said she said he said game, but when I called I was definitely flicked away. I asked for help to track the late package; it being already late as it is, instead of being helped, I was told to do it myself. And when given me the information to track it myself, I was talked to like a liability or something. Being upset as it is with no package after 2 weeks, instead of being helped I was talked to like a piece of trash.


"Our online system shows every order as "processing" if you don't click fully into the order, before the order has shipped. In order to get real-time status information, you must click the "Review Orders/Track Packages" button near the right hand side of the Orders page to get the real time status."

The package only shipped out AFTER the call was made to you guys asking for assistance to track the package and seeing the order showing up as processing, the real time status has nothing to do with the fact that the package was never sent until after one day I called.

"I first verified that a cat was purchased with your exhaust and then verified to make sure our Purchase Order to Eurojet was correct. Both of them were correct, therefore I had to contact Eurojet to find our why we both paid for a cat and you're reporting that the system did not have a cat included with it. At which point, I contacted Eurojet and was awaiting their response."

Yeah, and I received no response after you were awaiting Eurojet's response for a week and half, I had to call and chase you guys, Eurojet being your dropshippier has nothing to do with me. Your company sold me the exhaust, not Eurojet. As the end consumer I have no business in where you get your systems from, who drop ships it for you, etc etc. That is between you and your supplier.

"The logical next step would be to contact Eurojet, which is what was done. Since the follow up from Eurojet included a request for photos"

When Eurojet requested photos, I was not given a call? I had to call you guys in order to find out that I needed to go grab photos after 1.5 weeks of waiting on your response. When I was told to grab photos, I asked if I can just receive a refund afterwards, and your company just told me with attitude, that they will be deciding to either send me a catted DP, or give me a refund. Why are they the ones to be deciding on whether I get a refund or a catted DP? And please do explain as to why the representative had to ask sarcastically as to whether or not I knew what a cat was? Any explanation for that?

Instead of defending your actions, your company can not recognize or explain why I was lied to about the exhaust being the last one in stock when it was clearly not, why I was given attitude the whole way through and still not recognizing that fact despite multiple situations where it was evident customer service was non existent, and to top it off with a cherry on top, guy has guts to ask me if I knew what a cat was? I did not bother to deal with you guys anymore because the beginning of the transaction to the ridiculous smart remarks given to me were not acceptable.

As for your doubt of my somewhat loose quotations towards "I asked once more as to why do I need to deal with EJ, and was given a smart remark by the representative asking me a rhetorical question along the lines of "do you need to deal with Eurojet? Are you the one having to contact them to deal with them?" This is truth and I have no reason to pull that out of no where and it was a very unforgettable experience.

Why did I not want to deal with you in the first place and rather deal with a credit card company instead? Ask yourself that instead of defending your company and not recognizing what a horrible experience you have provided to me.

Attitude, lied to, item late, attitude, no response, missing cat, attitude, smart remarks. You go through that cycle as the end buyer and then you waltz and prance with your little digital camera on YOUR time and see if you are able to continue to deal your seller and snap those photos willingly.

Photos are on hand by Thursday. Give me the refund, I don't want your catted DP as the system is already installed, and do not want to deal with it anymore.
 

John@20Squared

Ready to race!
Location
Burlington, NJ
Car(s)
02 Jetta
At this point, we're beating a dead horse. I'd much rather resolve any issues you may have rather than continue to go back and forth with posts, so if you're interested in resolving, please contact me directly and include the information we requested.

It's a bit odd how you address the vague situations with a reply but no replies certain issues. So no reply on why I was told the item I bought was the last item I bought when it obviously wasn't?

I don't recall the specific situation, but we receive updates and promotion offers from our vendors all day/everyday and when our vendors tell us that product is available, we offer it. Conversely, when we're told it is the last or one of the last products, we convey the same. If the manufacturer changes or decided to manufacturer more at a later date, we have no control over that.

I was definitely given attitude, and at first I thought I was imagining this, but with more interactions with your company, the same attitude was given. And if you are sorry that you "gave the impression" that attitude was given, perhaps you should not give out that impression in the first place or to your future clients. I didn't just get the impression I got out of no where.

On that initial phone call, each of your questions were answered, correct? Again, I don't think that any attitudes were given, but I'm sorry if you got that impression.

I don't like playing the he said she said he said game, but when I called I was definitely flicked away. I asked for help to track the late package; it being already late as it is, instead of being helped, I was told to do it myself. And when given me the information to track it myself, I was talked to like a liability or something. Being upset as it is with no package after 2 weeks, instead of being helped I was talked to like a piece of trash.

The most up-to-date order information is always available online and that is what you were told. You were not told to do it yourself, rather you were told that the best way to receive order information and tracking information is available directly on our website.

The package only shipped out AFTER the call was made to you guys asking for assistance to track the package and seeing the order showing up as processing, the real time status has nothing to do with the fact that the package was never sent until after one day I called.

The exhausts drop ship directly from Eurojet's location. Since we do not have staff at Eurojet's location, we rely on Eurojet to process our Purchase Orders and ship packages, therefore we are reliant upon Eurojet. When we receive tracking numbers from Eurojet, we pass them along to you. The package wasn't sent just because you called, rather it was sent in the order that it was received and processed/shipped by Eurojet.

Yeah, and I received no response after you were awaiting Eurojet's response for a week and half, I had to call and chase you guys, Eurojet being your dropshippier has nothing to do with me. Your company sold me the exhaust, not Eurojet. As the end consumer I have no business in where you get your systems from, who drop ships it for you, etc etc. That is between you and your supplier.
You're right, you don't have any business with Eurojet, but in order for us to get accurate information, we DO have to contact Eurojet, who we have business with in order to find out what the issue may be. If I didn't contact Eurojet, there's no possible way to do anything in a situation like this without contacting them on our end. You were never asked to call Eurojet to handle the situation at all. Rather, we took care of the communication on our end, as that is normal procedure when a product is drop shipped from the manufacturer.

When Eurojet requested photos, I was not given a call? I had to call you guys in order to find out that I needed to go grab photos after 1.5 weeks of waiting on your response. When I was told to grab photos, I asked if I can just receive a refund afterwards, and your company just told me with attitude, that they will be deciding to either send me a catted DP, or give me a refund. Why are they the ones to be deciding on whether I get a refund or a catted DP? And please do explain as to why the representative had to ask sarcastically as to whether or not I knew what a cat was? Any explanation for that?
After the photo's were received, we'd promptly forward them to Eurojet for review and they would let us know how they'd like to proceed in this situation. Unfortunately we were unable to tell you exactly how it would be handled, as we were relying on Eurojet to give us that information. You were told this.

There are many customers that we deal with on a daily basis that range from a very skilled, knowledgeable background to customers that rely on their local mechanics and shops to take care of the technical background. It was not implied that you didn't know what you were talking about, rather, just verifying if we were talking about the same thing, considering all of our documentation shows that you were shipped a system with a cat.

Once again, we're not here to argue with you. We've been MORE than willing to sort the situation out from the start. Please remember that we're relying on you to get us a photo and we'll proceed from there. That was the last words we spoke about on the phone and I've been awaiting your email since then to proceed. From here out, contact me directly via email or phone to discuss the situation further.
 

GTIWV

WV VW
Location
WV
why do you think i have only ordered from there twice, the second time only because i got a gift certificate because they put the item on sale after i purchased it (and was still waiting on it for over 3 months) and i had to demand to get it.
 
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