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2.0t HPFP swap on 1.8t

tplociniak

Go Kart Newbie
Location
NEPA
Car(s)
2017 Alltrack SEL
Looking to continue the discussion on the HPFP from the 2.0t engines onto our 1.8t
Who is doing it?
What tuning route you are going with to control it?
Doing injector swaps as well?
Results?
 

tplociniak

Go Kart Newbie
Location
NEPA
Car(s)
2017 Alltrack SEL
I know Twindad and Crx swapped these onto their 1.8's before and they had cold start issues, but other than that it worked well from what I remember. To correct the issues they were having requires some custom tuning and I think there are only a handful of options for that for the 1.8. I'm probably not doing the swap until after winter
 

ZuMBLe

Autocross Champion
Location
NY
Car(s)
Alltrack 6MT
I'm interested in this, but I'm not sure I want to give up being able to tweak my own tune with Maestro.
 

TwinDad

Autocross Newbie
Location
Fort Lee, NJ
In order to do the hpfp swap, you have to have a protune for it. Not only is there an issue with idle, it won't operate at the correct pressure to gain the benefits. Those who tried to run it with Maestro actually lost pressure and were worse off. The ecu is programmed to run the Bosch pump at a certain pressure and volume. The signal on the Hitachi pump from the VCV is all off for what the ecu wants to read and then communication with the lpfp will be all off as well. I ran it and logged it. My pressures were no different without a tune. Cold start is EPC and limp mode. Warm start and the pressure at idle fluctuates like crazy. I am going to be putting one back in tomorrow though and I have a custom file from Reflect Tuning to run it.
Injectors aren't as weak as the hpfp apparently. Just the factory cycle on them is barely opening them. Once tuned it becomes apparent. On the APR 100 octane is20 file, the hpfp is operating at 95%.
 

Hoon

Autocross Champion
Location
Rhode Island
Any tuner who tells you that you can do this (properly) with Maestro should be avoided. I know there is one in particular who has been claiming it for a long time, and it's complete bullshit.
 

TwinDad

Autocross Newbie
Location
Fort Lee, NJ
Any tuner who tells you that you can do this (properly) with Maestro should be avoided. I know there is one in particular who has been claiming it for a long time, and it's complete bullshit.
He had one guy buy one of his hpfp and hybrid turbos. Tild him he could figure it all out. Even have him upgrade his lpfp. In the end the guy just had a bunch of parts he couldn't use. He is now just running is20 on his own Maestro settings. He says he knew he wa staking a chance and accepts responsibility, but the tuner should not have sold him the turbo and hpfp without a refund guarantee
 

Hoon

Autocross Champion
Location
Rhode Island
I’m curious how much E I’ll be able to run with the 2.0 HPFP and R/S3 injectors. I was talking to a guy today who traps 115 in his IS20 A3. He runs E40 with the stock fuel system and is only at 78%.

2.0/IS20 can get high 40s percentage without playing silly games like limited boost curves and lean ratios at the peak TQ area to stretch the HPFP out.
 
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Sparky589

Drag Racing Champion
United can do the HPFP, LPFP and Injectors for a 1.8T AWD, but I haven't heard anything about FWD recently. I asked a couple times and it was in the works.
I always wonder just how different the awd and fwd 1.8t tunes really are. They're identical blocks after all.
 

Hoon

Autocross Champion
Location
Rhode Island
I always wonder just how different the awd and fwd 1.8t tunes really are. They're identical blocks after all.

The hardware is only half the equation, are they the same ECU version?

We have several different versions for 2.0s.
 

TwinDad

Autocross Newbie
Location
Fort Lee, NJ
Just to clarify, my car is at a max of 92% with the HPFP and E33 on the APR Stage 2 100 octane tune. If you run E10 with it, you’ll be much lower.

The reason why you had those issues with the HPFP is because you ran it with the stock ECU tune. With the APR tune, it will run more pressure.
You don't know what you're talking about here. The issue is not just pressure. There is communication with the lpfp and volume at pressure. Just because you are running an APR tune does not mean the pump will work for you. I've been actively involved in this pump swap for close to a year. So many parameters are different that the ecu sees an error. Plus, the jb4 manipulates the pressure to a higher level than an APR tune. APR actually runs the pump at a lower pressure and changes injector cycle more than anything. What pressure are you seeing on the 100 octane file?
 

TwinDad

Autocross Newbie
Location
Fort Lee, NJ
United can do the HPFP, LPFP and Injectors for a 1.8T AWD, but I haven't heard anything about FWD recently. I asked a couple times and it was in the works.
UM does not offer an hpfp upgrade. They have an mpi option and a flex fuel file. Jeff will do fwd. He was interested in doing mine. I am close to them though. Not sure where you are located. In order to do my fwd auto, they wanted the car for a few days. As appealing as having the first UM tuned fwd sounded, I need my car every day. I am working with a different protuner now. I have the hpfp in the garage and the file loaded on the flasher, but just need to find a free hour or so to swap the pump and flash it. If you have a UM shop near you, have them reach out to Jeff
 

TwinDad

Autocross Newbie
Location
Fort Lee, NJ
For those considering this upgrade keep in mind the 2.0T HPFP is by no means a bolt on affair. The harness on our cars does not reach the plug on the Hitachi unit. You'll have to hack your harness up to install this. Fuck that. Glad I got mine for dirt cheap so I can at least get my money back when I go to sell it.

The HPFP for the latest generation RS3/TTRS (EA855 Evo engine) is a Bosch like our cars and is a bolt on. The sensor connector is on the same side as ours. My fuel hose barely reached. I'm not sure if this HPFP flows more than ours though. I'll just have to log it and find out.
You don't necessarily need to hack up the harness. Just slice it open and the wire reaches. Someone else was looking into the RS pump. You still may have issues with the signal and the pumps communicating though. The ecu is looking for a certain value, when you give it something else, it tries to correct. That is where you need the tune
 

TwinDad

Autocross Newbie
Location
Fort Lee, NJ
I think you're the one who doesn't know what you're talking about. How do you know how APR tunes their Simos 18 ECUs? Did it ever occur to you that maybe their software was calibrated to work with either a Bosch or Hitachi HPFP? As long as the piston size of the HPFP is bigger than OEM, it'll flow more.

How you can be "actively involved" in an HPFP upgrade for close to a year speaks volumes of how much you know about the subject.
I've seen actually data from it on an APR file, on a Maestro file and on a custom tune. I know what the issues are from working with the tuner. If you feel like you know better, then by all means go run it. It's your car and I don't give a fuck if it doesn't run correctly. Reflect tuning figured out the issues in the spring. I could have bolted it on then and went with it, but I wasn't ready to make the jump. I'm doing it now. And you are retarded if you think APR is going to make an OTS file that supports a different hpfp from a different engine that is made by a different manufacturer. Arin even commented on this like 2 years back when the subject first came up. So glad you finally joined the party though. So go ahead and bolt it up and report back. Several of us already have done this and know the outcome, but them again, you are the special Jack Jones, king of the VAG world
 

tplociniak

Go Kart Newbie
Location
NEPA
Car(s)
2017 Alltrack SEL
UM does not offer an hpfp upgrade. They have an mpi option and a flex fuel file. Jeff will do fwd. He was interested in doing mine. I am close to them though. Not sure where you are located. In order to do my fwd auto, they wanted the car for a few days. As appealing as having the first UM tuned fwd sounded, I need my car every day. I am working with a different protuner now. I have the hpfp in the garage and the file loaded on the flasher, but just need to find a free hour or so to swap the pump and flash it. If you have a UM shop near you, have them reach out to Jeff

I know they don't offer an off the shelf HPFP tune but was told they can custom tune for an injector & HPFP swap, guess I'll find out for sure in a month or so, have the injectors and a pump on the way
 

tplociniak

Go Kart Newbie
Location
NEPA
Car(s)
2017 Alltrack SEL
Anyone see a benefit in upgrading the HPFP internals as well before swapping this on? Probably not for IS20 but for IS38? It seems like GTI's with IS38 swaps see benefits

Second question, anyone having these used pumps tested before installing? If so, where and how?
 
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