Thoughts on motor/transmission mounts?

[El_bigote_AJ]

Anyone have the cp-e motor mounts? They're rubber and have a lifetime warranty. Looks to be priced similarly to the BFI mounts.

https://cp-e.com/shop/product/cp-e-xflex-volkswagen-mk7-driver-side-mount/

https://cp-e.com/shop/product/cp-e-xflex-volkswagen-mk7-passenger-side-mount/

I was looking at these a few months ago when i got the BFIs... I Should have went with these to be honest, it’s a much more tried and true engine mount design in regards to industry as a whole... the way the BFIs have no actual horizontal support beyond it “sitting” on a bushing is less than favorable to me. Also customer service was unpleasant for me and I will never recommend a BFI product Thanks to that.lol

 

[shlimp]

At this point I have had it since black Friday of last year. Maybe 10k miles or more? I had products from this company on my focus st and they were great.

 

[Dog Dad Wagon]

Reggie, do you think BFI stage 1, upper and lower inserts with the 034 doggone would be good for a daily driver? Better yet pass the significant other test?

Since my car isn't a dedicated track car, if my wife rides in it where there are tons of rattles, I could already hear the complaints. Which is good, cause on a daily driver my wife is the voice of reason being into her Focus ST as well. I could actually understand her becoming less supportive of further mods on the car if it really sacrifices street ability.

I have owned 3 MK7 Golfs (2 GTIs and now an Alltrack) with uprated dogbone mounts and I have tried the 034 lower insert x2, apr lower insert x2, 034 upper insert, apr pendulum bar X2, Roc euro pendulum bar, and Superpro Poly Lower Dogbone Insert (Not hybrid). I have also ran combinations of the above in conjunction with stock upper eng/trans mounts, 034 voidless rubber mounts, and BFI stage 1 low durometer polyurethane.

I am currently running stock upper eng/trans mounts on my 6K mile 6MT Alltrack with APR Pendulum bar, Steel APR Lower dogbone insert, and 034 Aluminum Upper Insert. I am happier with my current setup than any previous setup, though I am sure my upper mounts will wear out more quickly due to the strengthened lower mounts adding more stress to them. when I am done, I will be going with BFI upper mounts, and I'm confident that will only make me like my setup more. It's 10-15% more NVH over stock, with probably a 60-75% increase in drivetrain stiffness. Pretty damn good balance of performance and comfort. It's all I need for now, that's for sure. First gear rips with the newly installed mounts + AWD, and shifting is awesome now. don't feel like im gonna break the plastic in the shifter at WOT shifts anymore.

 

[gbar]

I was looking at these a few months ago when i got the BFIs... I Should have went with these to be honest, it’s a much more tried and true engine mount design in regards to industry as a whole... the way the BFIs have no actual horizontal support beyond it “sitting” on a bushing is less than favorable to me. Also customer service was unpleasant for me and I will never recommend a BFI product Thanks to that.lol

Dang, I just purchased the BFI stage 1 mounts without knowing about these. I agree, the cylindrical mount design of the CP-E makes a lot more sense than the sandwich mount design of the BFIs. Maybe I'll think about returning them, there just isn't a lot of reviews for the CP-E mounts yet.

 

[gbar]

I believe the majority of rotational energy the mount will need to resist is around the lateral y axis (front to back engine rocking).

My only concern with the BFI mount would be its rotation around the vertical Z axis, but I can't imagine our cars experience much force there. Any automotive engineers with knowledge here?

 

[El_bigote_AJ]

Dang, I just purchased the BFI stage 1 mounts without knowing about these. I agree, the cylindrical mount design of the CP-E makes a lot more sense than the sandwich mount design of the BFIs. Maybe I'll think about returning them, there just isn't a lot of reviews for the CP-E mounts yet.

If I wasn’t in such a rush to get them on (factory’s were very bad and could not drive the car well) I would have not installed, returned, and ordered the CP-E

in the near future I probably will just take the loss and sell these as used to be honest.

 

[CarlosCanizares]

If I wasn’t in such a rush to get them on (factory’s were very bad and could not drive the car well) I would have not installed, returned, and ordered the CP-E

Thanks for posting about the CP-E. These are now on my shopping list.

 

[gbar]

If I wasn’t in such a rush to get them on (factory’s were very bad and could not drive the car well) I would have not installed, returned, and ordered the CP-E

in the near future I probably will just take the loss and sell these as used to be honest.

Besides the customer service, are you not satisfied with the performance of the BFI mounts? Any issues?

 

[jimlloyd40]

Besides the customer service, are you not satisfied with the performance of the BFI mounts? Any issues?

Scroll back and click on the CPE links and you'll see why.

 

[El_bigote_AJ]

Besides the customer service, are you not satisfied with the performance of the BFI mounts? Any issues?

Yes, and it’s in part related to the customer service... so the driver side when installed with the engine weight on it has the top bushing kinda loose where I can move it around a bit, I tried to tighten it down as it’s pretty pointless to have it loose and have play on the middle bracket that supposed to be sandwiched between a 75A set of bushing as the air gap essentially lowers that rating. So I’m thinking no big deal just tighten the center bolt (it’s a flush allen now and not a hex...LOOKS better which I sure was the goal) but the problem is I snapped 2 Allen sockets trying to tighten it as it would not budge due to either 2 scenario ...

1. Too much or the wrong locktight was used during BFI assembly
2. The bolt threads are already maxed out to the center part of the bolt.

so I contact BFI about this and they tell me “it’s normal that SOME cars have the play in the top bushing and if I tighten it the Durameter rating would go up”

I told them I didn’t mind that and asked them to address the Issue with the bolt... I heard crickets to that part of the email.

NOW... keep in mind I’m dealing with the same customer service rep and I show him how the trans side center section haS twisted back (it’s clocked at an angle and not in-Line with the mounting bolts on the body, he tells me “no problem just loosen the centerbolt straighten it and re TQ the center bolt” *so I guess the trans side is the Goose and the driver side is the gander and the quote don’t hold true, lol

To be noted... I got the trans mount from ECS that was already in thier stock and the motor side I got direct from BFI cause this was during the covid shutdowns and BFI had crazy surge of orders around that time and couldn’t keep up with the demand, so it’s easy to assume the process on the engine mount side could have been rushed... during manufacturing assembly. But they didn’t even want to address that, up till now I have an unanswered email to my concerns of “what am I supposed to do when say I want to Swap out the insert for a stage 2? How am I expected to remove the bolt and be assured I can get it back in”

 

[gbar]

so I contact BFI about this and they tell me “it’s normal that SOME cars have the play in the top bushing and if I tighten it the Durameter rating would go up”

Thanks for sharing, it's interesting that they claim some play is normal. I would absolutely not feel comfortable with enough play to be able to move by hand. A brand new poly mount should be locked in IMO.

 

[black forest ind]

Yes, there is a little variation it bushing tolerances. No the mounts weren't rushed to be made. They aluminum pieces are made on our CNC machine and the program doesn't change. The bushings are molded, so there can be a slight variance that would allow it to be a little more turned when tightened down. We never would have said tightening the bolt would increase the durometer either. The fact that our design is in cars that run 8s, 9s, and 10 second 1/4 miles, on actual track cars, shows that our mounts are tried and true. I'm sorry that the mount was a little crooked when it was shipped out. You can loosen the bolt, and turn it and tighten the bolt again. Torque spec is 30-35 ft/lbs for the center bolt.

If I didn't reply to your email, I do apologize. I answer over 50-75 emails a day, and about 30-40 calls as well. There is one email box (sales@blackforestindustries.com) that gets used by the entire company, so sometimes emails get misdirected.

 

[El_bigote_AJ]

We never would have said tightening the bolt would increase the durometer either.

Oh yes sorry, didn’t mean to imply that "increase the durometer" was said verbatim... so to amend that comment : I the customer told them and showed them a video of how the top bushing was loose, and also told them how the bolt would not tighten or loosen (WHICH WAS YET SKIMMED OVER AGAIN IN THIS POST) and was told this VERBATIM

"You have found play with the upper bushing on our stage 1 engine mount. It is not unusual for this to occur - especially as the motor mounts age.(keep in mind the email chain this is from was - 1.connected to the original order so dates were prevalent. 2.started with me saying "Hi, i have been running these mounts for a week now...but yes go on about the age of the mounts) It is only of concern if the bottom bushing deforms in a meaningful way - then it would be a situation where bushing replacement would be necessary. (i never asked or mentioned wanting or thinking i needed replacement bushing, this was still all around asking WHY the bolt was locked up) The mounts are not designed to be tightly clamped together, as the tighter the compression of the bushing, the higher the effective durometer - which means more vibration"

The fact that our design is in cars that run 8s, 9s, and 10 second 1/4 miles, on actual track cars, shows that our mounts are tried and true.

Kudos...

the "tried and true" was not questions though as i said "sitting on the bushing is not favorable to me... so the relevance?

I'm sorry that the mount was a little crooked when it was shipped out. You can loosen the bolt, and turn it and tighten the bolt again. Torque spec is 30-35 ft/lbs for the center bolt.

LOL... good PR sir, but no need to apologize for a scenario that wasn't the case...as the product WAS shipped straight and tight, and not till after it was on the car did it shift and loosen.

If I didn't reply to your email, I do apologize. I answer over 50-75 emails a day, and about 30-40 calls as well. There is one email box (sales@blackforestindustries.com) that gets used by the entire company, so sometimes emails get misdirected.

in lieu of an excuse or justification maybe a response to the email would suffice better...

Dated - Mon 6/29/2020 1:18 PM -
Customer name- Anthony Whitesides
Order # - 93705

 

[black forest ind]

So looking through the email chain, we have responded to your emails and answered your questions and provided feedback or suggestions on how to fix your problem. As we mentioned, the shuddering and excessive vibration may be a clutch issue as you have a ceramic disc (possibly with too light of a pressure plate), and you were slipping the clutch from stand still. Our mounts will not cause this.

We also reviewed your videos and explained that your stock mounts did not fail despite there being more movement than you like. That's how OEM mounts operate.

Your assumptions were incorrect, and we tried to explain that to you. Every suggestion we made, you replied with a wall of combative text. To say we didn't respond to your emails is factually incorrect when they were responded to within that day.

 

[El_bigote_AJ]

So looking through the email chain, we have responded to your emails and answered your questions and provided feedback or suggestions on how to fix your problem. As we mentioned, the shuddering and excessive vibration may be a clutch issue as you have a ceramic disc (possibly with too light of a pressure plate), and you were slipping the clutch from stand still. Our mounts will not cause this.

We also reviewed your videos and explained that your stock mounts did not fail despite there being more movement than you like. That's how OEM mounts operate.

Your assumptions were incorrect, and we tried to explain that to you. Every suggestion we made, you replied with a wall of combative text. To say we didn't respond to your emails is factually incorrect when they were responded to within that day.

and yet again... skimming over the ONE ACTUAL ISSUE. read through it again... i kept asking OVER AND OVER when the bolt was locked up and how I'm expected to remove the bolt when say i decide to switch to a stage 2 insert. just like the last UNANSWERED EMAIL with that question, also to be noted its from 3 months ago, not sure why you are behaving like I'm pressing the situation, i moved on a accepted the way your company did business.

your attempts are disgusting display at customer service...you keep trying to blame everything else even when all I'm trying to do is be able to tighten a bolt down that you REFUSE to accept could have had something happen during assemble, and that's a blatant LIE that i was giving you a wall of combative text, you would make and assumption and blame something else and i would say i understand and again ask about the bolt issue.

and your assumption are hilarious at best... "possibly to light of a pressure plate" I'll play... 1. i said i had to force a slip. 2. here's the fun part... the ceramic disc clutch that's in the car was purchased as a kit with the disc and the pressure plate from a clutch manufacture, its a full segmented, ceramic, un-sprung disc. i see you offer a kit that has a its a full segmented, ceramic, sprung disc with a SMF... who makes that for you ???

TO RECAP - its not like i came on here and created a thread and bashed the product... the member asked me about it and i told my side, you jumped in told your side WITHOUT ACTUALLY RESEACHING the customers claim, i respond with factual accounts to each of your bullet point, you then realize its maybe better to research the customers concern FIRST, after you look at it you, then decide to ignore the bullet point you initially falsely touched on and bring up new aspect of the email even without AGAIN address the ONE issue i have that's DIRECT with the mount.