mk7_bk
Autocross Champion
- Location
- Philadelphia Area
Excellent information thanks
7
Ask Me Anything: Lug Nut, Bolts and Wheel Locks!
- Thread starter flipflp
- Start date
Excellent information thanks
Good day everyone
I was looking to convert to M14x1.5 and using 15mm spacers all the way around and keep on using my stock wheels since I have a summer and winter sets on them already so I would need to retain the ball seat lug nut (r13).
How long of a stud bolt should I go (70mm)?
Would it be better to use a closed or open lug design? I was thinking the closed would keep salt and water off the threads
Any suggestions on a ball seat wheel locks too?
Thanks
I was looking to convert to M14x1.5 and using 15mm spacers all the way around and keep on using my stock wheels since I have a summer and winter sets on them already so I would need to retain the ball seat lug nut (r13).
How long of a stud bolt should I go (70mm)?
Would it be better to use a closed or open lug design? I was thinking the closed would keep salt and water off the threads
Any suggestions on a ball seat wheel locks too?
Thanks
odessa.filez
Autocross Champion
- Location
- Roswell, GA
- Car(s)
- 2016 GSW 1.8tsi auto
Stud length (what part of the stud we're talking about) is sometimes vague in product descriptions. Some, like motorsport hardware explicitly state spacer sizes.
From browsing products, I suggest you review each product's description for info on spacers and if unknown, contact the vendor for recommendation.
I had some PMs with ITGUY about what he was looking for, like odessa.filez said you should either look for the retailer to state how much of a spacer the studs allow, or you have to do some maths.
There is usually 12-15mm worth of threads that go into the hub, then 3-6mm of unthreaded space that is going to be where the brake rotor lives. After that, you have your effective threaded length to use for wheel thickness, spacer and thread engagement.
Wheels are typically 10mm or so thick, that's what we'll use. Then 15mm worth of spacer, so 25mm used up total before we put a lug nut on. A 14mm thread should have 14mm of minimum thread engagement, that's just a broad industry standard. That means that the load of the threads is being distributed across sufficient threads so that there aren't concerns for failure.
Add that all up, and you should have at least ~40mm worth of threads protruding from the brake rotor face for a 15mm spacer. At least, minimum, etc. means more is fine. However, if you want to run a closed end lug nut, you also need to be concerned with internal thread depth on the lugs, so that they don't bottom out because of the bullet or pilot end of the stud. Ideally you measure everything on the vehicle to confirm, so that you know it's safe.
ITGUY and I also talked about how lug nuts (or locks) aren't very common for stud conversions. That's 100% true and outside of some very specific stud conversions like RacingLine who does studs and open end tuner style lugs with the correct R13 ball seat. That ball seat spec is unique to a bolt, not a lug nut, so making a variety of styles, finishes, locks with various combinations for security, etc. of lug nuts would be quite the undertaking. These are parts that are cold forged, require tooling to develop, and production runs of 2-5000 pieces from most suppliers.
That said, a lot of people will look to conversion washers. All I can say is check your lug torque frequently, confirm you have good thread engagement since the washers will space the lugs out somewhat, and maybe keep some spare washers around in case they go missing.
There is usually 12-15mm worth of threads that go into the hub, then 3-6mm of unthreaded space that is going to be where the brake rotor lives. After that, you have your effective threaded length to use for wheel thickness, spacer and thread engagement.
Wheels are typically 10mm or so thick, that's what we'll use. Then 15mm worth of spacer, so 25mm used up total before we put a lug nut on. A 14mm thread should have 14mm of minimum thread engagement, that's just a broad industry standard. That means that the load of the threads is being distributed across sufficient threads so that there aren't concerns for failure.
Add that all up, and you should have at least ~40mm worth of threads protruding from the brake rotor face for a 15mm spacer. At least, minimum, etc. means more is fine. However, if you want to run a closed end lug nut, you also need to be concerned with internal thread depth on the lugs, so that they don't bottom out because of the bullet or pilot end of the stud. Ideally you measure everything on the vehicle to confirm, so that you know it's safe.
ITGUY and I also talked about how lug nuts (or locks) aren't very common for stud conversions. That's 100% true and outside of some very specific stud conversions like RacingLine who does studs and open end tuner style lugs with the correct R13 ball seat. That ball seat spec is unique to a bolt, not a lug nut, so making a variety of styles, finishes, locks with various combinations for security, etc. of lug nuts would be quite the undertaking. These are parts that are cold forged, require tooling to develop, and production runs of 2-5000 pieces from most suppliers.
That said, a lot of people will look to conversion washers. All I can say is check your lug torque frequently, confirm you have good thread engagement since the washers will space the lugs out somewhat, and maybe keep some spare washers around in case they go missing.
THEREALVRT
Drag Racing Champion
- Location
- The great white north
- Car(s)
- Golf R
if a squirrel stole my lock key what's the best way to get it back?
Depends on the company that made the locks haha. Also, what are you feeding those squirrels???
For Gorilla locks, every lock set includes a silver sticker with a key registration number on it. That number tells us what components were packaged in the set before it was sealed up, and we can determine a replacement key from that.
If you don't have that number for some reason (threw it away, shop never gave it to you, squirrel stole it) we first confirm the product you have with a picture, so we don't waste time beyond that. It's really common for people to assume what brand product they have, or to have had a few sets of wheels and locks have been changed, but you have a receipt that shows one brand so you go with it.
Then we ask for something physical to be sent to us for matching, either one lock removed (it's not impossible, if you can't figure out a way, we recommend going to a wheel and tire shop, you aren't the first person they've helped with that) or a silicone mold made of the lock. We've actually had REALLY great luck with a putty called Easy Mold, it cures quick, molds precisely, and doesn't get damaged in transit like clay, wax, etc. Believe me, I've seen all sorts of weird molds.
Then we make a match, sell you a key and get you a replacement sticker so that you hopefully don't have to do that again. Pretty easy, but something that you can EASILY avoid.
Keep any information that comes with the lock set.
Order a spare key as soon as you get the set, keep it at home in your tool box where you know it is going to be.
Remove any information from your vehicle of previous lock sets once you replace them, don't get them confused. This is extra important when something is lost and you need to order a key.
If you sell your vehicle, include all of this stuff with the sale. I can't tell you how many people either look for sympathy because "they didn't install them!" or are just completely caught off guard because they bought a car with locks and didn't know.
Locks are cheap insurance. If a thief has the tools and time, they'll get your wheels, but locks DO slow them down (InB4 youtube videos and stories of how easily you've removed locks before). Just don't make your life difficult because you threw everything out or disregarded the meaning of the word "lock".
THEREALVRT
Drag Racing Champion
- Location
- The great white north
- Car(s)
- Golf R
People have made jokes about my nuts for so long now that I don't even look for the jokes anymore, and I love a corny (or nutty) joke. So jaded
Best I've got:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4O-SX_W0lrQ
THA JAM:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWRyj5cHIQA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4O-SX_W0lrQ
THA JAM:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWRyj5cHIQA
THEREALVRT
Drag Racing Champion
- Location
- The great white north
- Car(s)
- Golf R
i miss vince
That guy is quite the character:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vince_Offer
Yes, I will OT my own thread to talk about the ShamWow guy.
MonkeyMD
Autocross Champion
Upgrading to some 18x9 Konig Rennform's
Is there any benefit to McGard Lug Bolts or are all lug bolts created equal? If not, what do you recommend?
Also Konig recommends tuner style lug bolts. Are they truly required? Read a lot of reviews of people stripping keys.
I know I need cone bolts but with no spacers, will 28mm be fine?
Finally, they are 66.56 hub size, but are 66.6 and 66.56 hub rings interchangeable?
Is there any benefit to McGard Lug Bolts or are all lug bolts created equal? If not, what do you recommend?
Also Konig recommends tuner style lug bolts. Are they truly required? Read a lot of reviews of people stripping keys.
I know I need cone bolts but with no spacers, will 28mm be fine?
Finally, they are 66.56 hub size, but are 66.6 and 66.56 hub rings interchangeable?
Last edited:
snobrdrdan
former GTI owner
- Location
- Southeast Michigan
This is Jon's thread, but yes. The lug holes are pretty small on these wheels and doesn't leave much room (hell "regular" ones might not even fit), unless you want to rash up the lug holes with a socket
MonkeyMD
Autocross Champion
Have you seen these small diameter lug bolts? I use these with my TSW and Beyern wheels.
https://www.gorilla-auto.com/small-diameter-lug-bolts
https://www.gorilla-auto.com/small-diameter-lug-bolts