JT64
Passed Driver's Ed
- Location
- Chandler, AZ
- Car(s)
- BMW X3 35i M Sport
Can't seem to find anybody that sells SuperPro ball joints to go with these. Does anybody know if you can use stock ball joints with these CA's.
V
SUPAPRO Supaloy control arms
- Thread starter phillip1978
- Start date
Of course you can as you can with S3 arms. :wink:
For increased/adjustable camber you'd need the SuperPro ball joints.
BTW, anyone who sells SuperPro bushes and arms is able to provide the ball joints.
JT64
Passed Driver's Ed
- Location
- Chandler, AZ
- Car(s)
- BMW X3 35i M Sport
Yeah figured as much, The only place I can find the SuperPro LCA's besides Ebay is USP Motorsports which has them priced higher than Ebay, But they've always been great at price matching other places, So I'll see if they'll match the ebay price & maybe get the SuperPro ball joints through them or just get replacement stock units.
bRett 32
Ready to race!
- Location
- Redwood City, CA
That is not true. Whiteline feels that "polyurethane" is a word that people associate bad things with; cracking, noise, vibration, harshness, etc.
So they coined the term 'synthetic elastomer' so they could market it as something special that people wouldn't immediately associate with the rock hard poly that Energy and Prothane have sold in the US.
HYDE16
Ready to race!
- Location
- Morris County, NJ
man, they really get us with the marketing, my bad. I spoke with Tony Phan who gave me a full description of their bushings vs. poly. Either way I chose to stick with OEM Audi TT bushings.
bRett 32
Ready to race!
- Location
- Redwood City, CA
Sorry, I should probably qualify that last post a bit.
I would say that Whiteline is correct in trying to distance themselves from poly made in the U.S. The polyurethane that comes out of Australia is superior to what has traditionally been available from US manufacturers.
I'm not a chemist, but I know a number of people from Whiteline/RedRanger and SuperPro/Fulcrum well and have used parts from both manufacturers on a couple of different cars, so I can at least offer you some of the explanation and info they have offered me.
I'll stick to the theory over the technical because this is largely paraphrased from my memory of several discussions over the last few years.
The first thing that both companies will probably tell you is that Australia is a different market than the U.S. - so beyond riding kangaroos to work and everything being upside down - means that they simply do things differently.
An example - since we're discussing control arms and their bushings - assume the bushing that mounts the rear of your from LCA fails - it tears apart, begins to separate from the mount it is in - whatever.
If you take your car with that issue to any dealership, or the vast majority of service shops in the US - they will either replace the entire mount with the OE rubber bushing in it - or if that isn't available they'll order a complete Meyle or whatever control arm complete with the bushings/mount/etc. The bushing itself would be cheaper - but the upcharge to sell you the whole arm or mount assembly is likely less expensive than the labor to press that failed/worn bushing out and put a new one in - so you get a whole new assembly and they get the car off their lift quicker.
In Australia, by a combination of preference, economics, and likely marketing/salesmanship - they tend to prefer a more permanent solution, and an upgrade if the work is already being done (their cars are also subjected to inspection for registration). It must be said that the opinion of those I've spoken to is that they are also less sensitive to NVH - which certainly isn't an issue with all bushings - but it is something people associate with polyurethane in the U.S. - so many shops will stay away from it as much as they can.
If you take that same issue to a repair shop in Australia, you would most likely be sold a SuperPro or Nolathane (Whiteline's Australian replacement brand) replacement bushing. If you seem to enjoy driving or have say a GTI rather than a base Golf, they'd likely recommend the version that adds some caster - or if you deal with Australia's aggressive crowned roads - perhaps a 'single offset' kit that adds an offset to one side of the car but not the other to naturally compensate for the crown of the road rather than forcing you to keep your wheels turned 15° to center to track straight ahead.
Again - not a chemist - but what I have been told is that it is more costly and marginally more difficult to make a poly recipe that offers the inherent benefits of polyurethane while building in as much elasticity as possible. In the U.S. polyurethane seems to traditionally be found only on the performance side of the aftermarket so the priority has likely been on hardness and eliminating the compromises of the rubber bushings you're replacing.
In Australia the replacement industry simply won't tolerate increased rattles, noise and vibration, so the materials were developed and engineered differently, leading to parts that largely offer acceptable levels of noise and harshness, while also providing a performance and longevity benefit over what they were replacing.
I would say that Whiteline is correct in trying to distance themselves from poly made in the U.S. The polyurethane that comes out of Australia is superior to what has traditionally been available from US manufacturers.
I'm not a chemist, but I know a number of people from Whiteline/RedRanger and SuperPro/Fulcrum well and have used parts from both manufacturers on a couple of different cars, so I can at least offer you some of the explanation and info they have offered me.
I'll stick to the theory over the technical because this is largely paraphrased from my memory of several discussions over the last few years.
The first thing that both companies will probably tell you is that Australia is a different market than the U.S. - so beyond riding kangaroos to work and everything being upside down - means that they simply do things differently.
An example - since we're discussing control arms and their bushings - assume the bushing that mounts the rear of your from LCA fails - it tears apart, begins to separate from the mount it is in - whatever.
If you take your car with that issue to any dealership, or the vast majority of service shops in the US - they will either replace the entire mount with the OE rubber bushing in it - or if that isn't available they'll order a complete Meyle or whatever control arm complete with the bushings/mount/etc. The bushing itself would be cheaper - but the upcharge to sell you the whole arm or mount assembly is likely less expensive than the labor to press that failed/worn bushing out and put a new one in - so you get a whole new assembly and they get the car off their lift quicker.
In Australia, by a combination of preference, economics, and likely marketing/salesmanship - they tend to prefer a more permanent solution, and an upgrade if the work is already being done (their cars are also subjected to inspection for registration). It must be said that the opinion of those I've spoken to is that they are also less sensitive to NVH - which certainly isn't an issue with all bushings - but it is something people associate with polyurethane in the U.S. - so many shops will stay away from it as much as they can.
If you take that same issue to a repair shop in Australia, you would most likely be sold a SuperPro or Nolathane (Whiteline's Australian replacement brand) replacement bushing. If you seem to enjoy driving or have say a GTI rather than a base Golf, they'd likely recommend the version that adds some caster - or if you deal with Australia's aggressive crowned roads - perhaps a 'single offset' kit that adds an offset to one side of the car but not the other to naturally compensate for the crown of the road rather than forcing you to keep your wheels turned 15° to center to track straight ahead.
Again - not a chemist - but what I have been told is that it is more costly and marginally more difficult to make a poly recipe that offers the inherent benefits of polyurethane while building in as much elasticity as possible. In the U.S. polyurethane seems to traditionally be found only on the performance side of the aftermarket so the priority has likely been on hardness and eliminating the compromises of the rubber bushings you're replacing.
In Australia the replacement industry simply won't tolerate increased rattles, noise and vibration, so the materials were developed and engineered differently, leading to parts that largely offer acceptable levels of noise and harshness, while also providing a performance and longevity benefit over what they were replacing.
bRett 32
Ready to race!
- Location
- Redwood City, CA
They do, but I think in this case it is warranted (added some info to try to explain between your posts).
I realize Whiteline's stuff hasn't been perfect as there have been a handful of instances of the bushing in the ALK failing, but for most it is a pretty nice upgrade for the money, and if it does have an issue under severe duty they (and SuperPro) offer a lifetime warranty.
bRett 32
Ready to race!
- Location
- Redwood City, CA
Griffin Motorwerke and 034 Motorsport both carry the SuperPro stuff if you want to get it somewhere semi-local.
JT64
Passed Driver's Ed
- Location
- Chandler, AZ
- Car(s)
- BMW X3 35i M Sport
Bruce do you have any experience with there roll center ball joints? Trying to decide if they're worth it, They're $245 for the pair & I can get new stock ones for about $90 for a pair.
Yeah I've dealt with 034 They've done most of the work to my car, Where's Griffin Motorwerke located?. The company selling SuperPro products on Ebay say there an authorized dealer for SuperPro that's located in NorCal.
TypeR_126
Ready to race!
- Location
- Concord, CA
- Car(s)
- GTI
Griffin is in Berkeley, FYI.
JT64
Passed Driver's Ed
- Location
- Chandler, AZ
- Car(s)
- BMW X3 35i M Sport
Could some one help me out here See post #27 http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showth...t=56448&page=2 What would really help is a picture diagram pointing to what specs go where as I can't quite make sense of this ??
Component Tightening Specification
Mounting bracket to consolet Use new bolts.
50 Nm + 90° turn
Mounting bracket to body Use new bolts.
70 Nm + 90° turn
Ball joint to steel control arm Use new nuts.
60 Nm
Ball joint to sheet steel or aluminum control arm Use new nuts.
100 Nm
Control arm to consolet Use a new bolt.
t Tighten in curb weight position.
70 Nm + 180° turn
and I've got these sitting in my garage waiting to be installed.
Component Tightening Specification
Mounting bracket to consolet Use new bolts.
50 Nm + 90° turn
Mounting bracket to body Use new bolts.
70 Nm + 90° turn
Ball joint to steel control arm Use new nuts.
60 Nm
Ball joint to sheet steel or aluminum control arm Use new nuts.
100 Nm
Control arm to consolet Use a new bolt.
t Tighten in curb weight position.
70 Nm + 180° turn
and I've got these sitting in my garage waiting to be installed.
Last edited:
thechromecoyote
Ready to race!
- Location
- Northern NJ 07424
- Car(s)
- 2019 GTI SE
Fak... this thread and the one at Mk6 has totally killed my suspension refresh intentions lol
Not bad, just suddenly went from being a sub $200 to $750.
Was originally going with Whiteline bushings for front LCA, and TT-RS rubber bushings for rear position with OEM housings, and new OEM ball joints.
Now I want the whole super alloy arm assembly and adjustable ball joints.
Not bad, just suddenly went from being a sub $200 to $750.
Was originally going with Whiteline bushings for front LCA, and TT-RS rubber bushings for rear position with OEM housings, and new OEM ball joints.
Now I want the whole super alloy arm assembly and adjustable ball joints.
JT64
Passed Driver's Ed
- Location
- Chandler, AZ
- Car(s)
- BMW X3 35i M Sport
Yup I know how you feel, my mod plans kept changing & getting more expensive to what they are today.:biggrin: I should hopefully have my super pro lca's on next week?, Not going with there ball joints, Just going to replace the stockers same time as the control arms. I'll do the TT mounts & passat spindles when I do the sachs coilovers.
thechromecoyote
Ready to race!
- Location
- Northern NJ 07424
- Car(s)
- 2019 GTI SE
Nice, post up your review once you get them on. I would like to hear from a MK5 guy about the advantages of the lighter arms. Since theres so little difference between the MK6 and Superpro LCA's in terms of weight their reviews arent nearly as helpful.
Why dont you go for the 034 Mounts? They have a tested 75 durameter bushing over the TT mounts which are actually lower durameter than stock MK5 mounts.