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The COVID19 SCAMdemic... Biden Moves To Outlaw Acorns, Limit Squirrel Immigration

anotero

Autocross Champion
Location
Hither and thither
Car(s)
Mk7 GTI
Except that the 25 point Nazi program of 1921 has several socialist policies included in it. I know you don't want to be associated with them (nobody does) but it is a fact.

From 21 to 33 -- that's 12 years.

You don't know what i want or don't want. I'm telling you how it was. The narrative trying to equate or bring nazis/fascists closer to their antithesis -- the left, is a tactic that's been on the rise ever since 91.
 

jimlloyd40

Autocross Champion
Location
Phoenix
Car(s)
2018 SE DSG
You literally just said you don't, because you're an independent, who ironically voted twice for the guy that nazis and white supremacists held rallies for, had always been openly corrupt and cut taxes for the wealthy and corporations, while instituting expiring cuts for the poor and middle class, that turn into increases.
Look both parties have things I like and dislike. But the parts that I dislike are too strong for me to swear an allegiance to either party.
 

npace

Autocross Champion
Location
Netherlands
From 21 to 33 -- that's 12 years.

You don't know what i want or don't want. I'm telling you how it was. The narrative trying to equate or bring nazis/fascists closer to their antithesis -- the left, is a tactic that's been on the rise ever since 91.
So state controlled production isn't socialist? (note I said state controlled, and not state owned) And you're right, I don't know what you want. I assumed that you were a socialist based on apologizing for Stalin's murders earlier by throwing in combat casualty numbers and ignoring the Great Purge before the war and the plight of numerous smaller groups after.

Also: I'll admit that the Nazis have things in common with the left and right. They're Nationalists, Socialists, and hard to peg down. Really my point is about how idiotic it is to pretend that the republican party is full of Nazis because of a bunch of assholes holding a rally in Charlottesville. Just like it's idiotic to think that all democrats are KKK members because of their history together.
 

oddspyke

Autocross Champion
Location
Delaware
Car(s)
2016 GTI, 2018 ZL1
You literally just said you don't, because you're an independent, who ironically voted twice for the guy that nazis and white supremacists held rallies for, had always been openly corrupt and cut taxes for the wealthy and corporations, while instituting expiring cuts for the poor and middle class, that turn into increases.
I don't think you can fault someone for those groups deciding to support them. You fault that person for actively courting and encouraging that support. Important distinction, at least to me.
Because your democrat friends are closer to socialists, and therefore Nazis. I'm not going to get into Trump populism and white supremacy, because neither side has a leg to stand on with that argument, as @Escape Hatch pointed out. And you never answered my question before, so I'll ask again: Both sides of what?
Authoritarian nationalism was really their defining characteristic, which has a lot more in common with the Republican party as of late. Even if you throw in socialism, it looks more a blending of the worst parts of both our major parties.
 

MagicMK

Drag Racing Champion
Location
PA
Serbia bombings were a NATO operation not sanctioned by the UN. You proved my point about propaganda. You are yet another typical imperialist douchebag, just with a letter D appended.
Imperialist douchebag because I didn't recall (off the top of my head, btw) that it was a NATO mission instead of a UN. Yes, I didn't even check google, but I agree it was a NATO mission. How dafuq does that change anything else I stated and you being completely wrong and living in la-la land about Republicans and war? I mean, NATO, UN, tomato, tom-a-to, what difference does it make to you?
 

GTIfan99

Autocross Champion
Location
FL
Look both parties have things I like and dislike. But the parts that I dislike are too strong for me to swear an allegiance to either party.

You voted for the worst of right wing ideology twice in a row.

I think someone could make a valid argument that there wasn't much difference between Obama and Romney or McCain.

But Trump was an obvious lifelong con man and virulent racist who ran on an openly white nationalist platform and filled his cabinet with white nationalists and wealthy grifters.

The current democratic party has a wide range of left to right of center ideas and ideology, as witnessed by their inability to agree on anything.

The majority of the GOP fall in line, rank and file, no matter how bad or outlandish the issue. See the election lies and the Qanon conspiracies that are devouring the party.

If you can't tell which is worse, then I guess it explains how you voted twice for Trump.
 
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GTIfan99

Autocross Champion
Location
FL
I don't think you can fault someone for those groups deciding to support them. You fault that person for actively courting and encouraging that support. Important distinction, at least to me.

Authoritarian nationalism was really their defining characteristic, which has a lot more in common with the Republican party as of late. Even if you throw in socialism, it looks more a blending of the worst parts of both our major parties.

Sure you can. They voted for and supported Trump because of his support and adoption of long held white supremacist policy goals.

If you're opinions and policy goals align with neo-nazis and white nationalist groups, you should really take a step back and reevaluate. The GOP did the opposite, they embraced it.
 
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anotero

Autocross Champion
Location
Hither and thither
Car(s)
Mk7 GTI
So state controlled production isn't socialist? (note I said state controlled, and not state owned) And you're right, I don't know what you want. I assumed that you were a socialist based on apologizing for Stalin's murders earlier by throwing in combat casualty numbers and ignoring the Great Purge before the war and the plight of numerous smaller groups after.

Also: I'll admit that the Nazis have things in common with the left and right. They're Nationalists, Socialists, and hard to peg down. Really my point is about how idiotic it is to pretend that the republican party is full of Nazis because of a bunch of assholes holding a rally in Charlottesville. Just like it's idiotic to think that all democrats are KKK members because of their history together.

No, state controlled and not owned production is not socialism. The 3rd Reich was a militaristic entity prepping for war and waging war during its 12 years in existence. A level of production control during that period does not make it socialist. The USSR with its state owned means of production was socialist.

The so-called great purge concerned first and foremost the party apparatus and the military on the eve of the Great war. According to Zemskov, who can hardly be credited as being a fan of Stalin, in the 24 year period from 1921 to 1953, some 640k were issued a death sentence per section 58-1. My appeal to war casualties was an example of a sanity check, which your claim does not pass. It was not an apology, it was part of a rebuttal.

Nazism as a system is not hard to peg down. All one has to do is examine defining features of the 1000 year reich (thankfully it only lasted 12 years) to understand it.
Nationalism as we see it is a relatively new concept that coincided with the developmemt of capitalism and the move away from feudalism in the West.
 

jimlloyd40

Autocross Champion
Location
Phoenix
Car(s)
2018 SE DSG
You voted for the worst of right wing ideology twice in a row.

I think someone could make a valid argument that there wasn't much difference between Obama and Romney or McCain.

But Trump was an obvious lifelong con man and virulent racist who ran on an openly white nationalist platform and filled his cabinet with white nationalists and wealthy grifters.

The current democratic party has a wide range of left to right of center ideas and ideology, as witnessed by their inability to agree on anything.

The majority of the GOP fall in line, rank and file, no matter how bad or outlandish the issue. See the election lies and the Qanon conspiracies that are devouring the party.

If you can't tell which is worse, then I guess it explains how you voted twice for Trump.
Like I said both parties stand for things that I dislike enough to not swear allegiance to either party. Period. End of story.
 

MagicMK

Drag Racing Champion
Location
PA
Actually, Congress voted almost unanimously to give President Bush the Authority to Use Force (the AUMF) in Afghanistan and later in Iraq (the Senate, including Hillary Clinton, voted in favor, but you claim you voted for her, so you know, right?)

President Obama authorized air strikes in Libya to support the uprising against Ghaddafi starting in early 2011. Three months into military action in Libya, the Obama administration released a statement that they did not require Congressional approval. https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...ional-approval/2011/06/15/AGLttOWH_story.html

So no, you're wrong, a republican congress did not approve Obama's military action in Libya.

I'm no fan of the Bush wars, but Obama is equally responsible for expanding a bunch of the programs he ran against: drone strikes, extraordinary renditions, the war in Afghanistan aka "the good war". He even authorized the murder of a US citizen despite a lack of due process and it being a direct violation of the constitution. Again, the two party system is a sham, and has given people like you the illusion of choice.
Okay, that was a UN Security Council decision that Obama acted upon, but that doesn't mean I agreed with it. I'm okay if a bunch of Libyans died trying to overthrow Quadaffi - not our war. The difference between Democrats and Republicans is that we can disagree with our leaders. Republicans follow lock step with everything they say... Trump was a massive idiot and lied all the time. How many Republicans in power actually ever challenged him. CNN beats up on Biden, constantly... Fox never finished sucking Trump's d!@k to stop and take a breath to tell him he was wrong about anything (with a few very minor exceptions).

I never said a Republican Congress approved action against Libya. Read closely what I wrote. Congress has War Powers, the president does not. The Presidents since 9/11 have been operating under some MOU that allows the President to take unilateral action w/o declaring war. I know that and have known that - that's why I wrote what I wrote very carefully. Republicans could have stopped Obama and Trump for that matter... they never did and Democrats still have not as of today.
 

GTIfan99

Autocross Champion
Location
FL

anotero

Autocross Champion
Location
Hither and thither
Car(s)
Mk7 GTI
Imperialist douchebag because I didn't recall (off the top of my head, btw) that it was a NATO mission instead of a UN. Yes, I didn't even check google, but I agree it was a NATO mission. How dafuq does that change anything else I stated and you being completely wrong and living in la-la land about Republicans and war? I mean, NATO, UN, tomato, tom-a-to, what difference does it make to you?

There's a big difference between actions sanctioned by the UN and NATO operations. They are not the same thing even if they share the letter N.

I can't be living in lalaland about republicans because i don't give a shit about either party -- they are both war mongering imperialists. Watching you rip yourself a new one in here over the dem/rep fight is hilarious. Keep it up.
 

oddspyke

Autocross Champion
Location
Delaware
Car(s)
2016 GTI, 2018 ZL1
Sure you can. They voted for and supported Trump because of his support and adoption of long held white supremacist policy goals.

If you're opinions and policy goals align with neo-nazis and white nationalist groups, you should really take a step back and reevaluate. The GOP did the opposite, they embraced it.
That's the distinction I'm trying to make though. You can't just say someone is worse because a Nazi supported them. You can say that someone is worse for actively courting white nationalists, adopting their policies, refusing to condemn their actions, etc.
 

GTIfan99

Autocross Champion
Location
FL
Like I said both parties stand for things that I dislike enough to not swear allegiance to either party. Period. End of story.

I get that, both parties have things I agree with and don't agree with.

But you supported the worst of what the GOP has to offer. Pure populist white nationalist drivel that won't solve any of the issues our country faces.
 
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