GOLFMK8
GOLFMK7
GOLFMK6
GOLFMKV

Possible Cam Chain/Tensioner Wear?

doktorslowburn

New member
Location
California
Car(s)
07 GTI Base
Hey all, hoping someone can help me with this.
The car is an 07 GTI with an FSI engine. About 92,600 miles on the clock. I just recently replaced the timing belt, tensioner, water pump and pulleys.
Doing some further reading about the car, I learned that it also has a cam chain that has a tendency to fail. I saw some videos about this, and it sounds like my engine might be making this sound.
In the video I’m including here, I can hear the valves, but there’s also a secondary kind of off-beat ticking that I hear, which I think might be the cam chain or tensioner.
Is anyone able to confirm this? The service looks way easier to perform than the timing belt was, so that’s a relief. But if this is a problem, I’d obviously rather address it sooner than later.

Here’s the video.
 

GTI's

Drag Racing Champion
Location
MD
Get a video from where the chain actual is, or use a mechanics stethoscope and listen at the cover.
 

ROH ECHT

K04 PLAY
Location
PDX OR
Car(s)
2007 MKV GTI
Ticking sounds come from a number of things on this engine. Besides the chain and tensioner, others to cause ticking are; the injectors, the N80 EVAP purge valve gets loud and is replaced, rockers if oil pressure is poor or there is lobe wear, and from the cam follower and/or intake cam driving the follower are worn. But the chain and tensioner can result in more damage. You can have the chain-stretch and tensioner-wear checked with VCDS. Or remove the chain cover from the back of the engine and just replace the two. But while doing the service, include; replacing the three composite N205 rings, inspect the cam adjuster unit for grooves where the three rings are inserted into it (maybe even take it apart for a cleaning), and remove the N205 pick-up screen from the lower edge of the chain cover and clean it.
chain cover.png
 
Last edited:

Saki Ashraf

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
Houston
Ticking sounds come from a number of things on this engine. Besides the chain and tensioner, others to cause ticking are; the injectors, the N80 EVAP purge valve gets loud and is replaced, rockers if oil pressure is poor or there is lobe wear, and from the cam follower and/or intake cam driving the follower are worn. But the chain and tensioner can result in more damage. You can have the chain-stretch and tensioner-wear checked with VCDS. Or remove the chain cover from the back of the engine and just replace the two. But while doing the service, include; replacing the three composite N205 rings, inspect the cam adjuster unit for grooves where the three rings are inserted into it (maybe even take it apart for a cleaning), and remove the N205 pick-up screen from the lower edge of thec over and clean it.
View attachment 221075
Roh,
Do you have a procedure/how to for checking the chain stretch with VCDS?
Thanks.
 

ROH ECHT

K04 PLAY
Location
PDX OR
Car(s)
2007 MKV GTI
VCDS Group/MB 093 - Phase Position - Bank 1 Intake; at operating temp at idle, it should be less than 3° kW or less...even though 5° kW is the range. I say this because at 4° kW some will experience issues and 5° kW is the "so called" limit of chain stretch.

Basically...and this is hearsay at the moment, as this is what is said for the TSI EA888 engine:
0° to 3° = OK
4° = Prepare to address the chain and tensioner
5° = Do it!
Addition 4JUN22: I have recently seen 6° for the EA113 as the "Do it!" range. Not yet had this confirmed though.
↑ That is all dependent, I believe, if the basic setting Group/MB 094 is already shown as successful. If not...I believe no value appears in Group/MB 093.

Another to look at is; in Group/MB 091 the kW value in both Specified and Actual should be 28° KW....unless you have the older AXX engine (never available in the U.S.). In that one, I believe the value for spec. and act. is 24° KW.
 
Last edited:

GTI's

Drag Racing Champion
Location
MD
VCDS Group/MB 093 - Phase Position - Bank 1 Intake; at operating temp at idle, it should be less than 3° kW or less...even though 5° kW is the range. I say this because at 4° kW some will experience issues and 5° kW is the "so called" limit of chain stretch.

Basically:
0° to 3° = OK
4° = Prepare to address the chain and tensioner
5° = Do it!

↑ That is all dependent, I believe, if the basic setting Group/MB 094 is already shown as successful. If not...I believe no value apperas in Group/MB 093.

Another to look at is; in Group/MB 091 the kW value in both Specified and Actual should be 28° KW....unless you have the older AXX engine (never avaiable in the U.S.). In that one, I believe the value for spec. and act. is 24° KW.
Is this not for the TSI? And if not where did this come from.
 

ROH ECHT

K04 PLAY
Location
PDX OR
Car(s)
2007 MKV GTI
Yes...it is all I've seen and was shown on a DAP video for the TSI. I have also seen these numbers thrown around on the UK MK5GolfGti forum...and I am unsure of where this information came to them from. Perhaps they adopted it from the same DAP video. I have asked DAP, if VW/Audi techs telling him these angles, if they also apply to the EA113 FSI and have not yet received a response. But mine, with 156k miles, being at 2° kW likely correlates to within that range for the TSI. I will change my replies when I hear anything differently on applying those same angles to the FSI. Thank you...I meant to include that those angles are hearsay at the moment. Made an additional statement above. I might go out sometime and hover over the block in VCDS just to see if it provides a spec range...I think I did that before and got nothing.
 

GTI's

Drag Racing Champion
Location
MD
Yes...it is all I've seen and was shown on a DAP video for the TSI. I have also seen these numbers thrown around on the UK MK5GolfGti forum...and I am unsure of where this information came to them from. Perhaps they adopted it from the same DAP video. I have asked DAP, if VW/Audi techs telling him these angles, if they also apply to the EA113 FSI and have not yet received a response. But mine, with 156k miles, being at 2° kW likely correlates to within that range for the TSI. I will change my replies when I hear anything differently on applying those same angles to the FSI. Thank you...I meant to include that those angles are hearsay at the moment. Made an additional statement above. I might go out sometime and hover over the block in VCDS just to see if it provides a spec range...I think I did that before and got nothing.
Now we just need people to report what they are seeing for valves at various at various mileage & new replacements & noisy chain & slap to get a baseline for the EA113.
 

ROH ECHT

K04 PLAY
Location
PDX OR
Car(s)
2007 MKV GTI
That would be helpful if people asking about chain noise, or just prior to changing their EA113 chain, would include where the Phase Position is at that time. I can ask my Techs but if DAP is correct, then they too may not know other than personal opinion based on experience.
 

clockwise33

New York Giants Fanatic
Location
NJ
I swapped my chain and tensioner as a precaution at 100,000 miles. I had the startup chain slap sounds for years and figured I’d get a jump on it. What I found was that the chain and tensioner were fine, however the plastic guides showed very slight wear, barely enough to feel with a fingernail, and small cracks forming at the hole at the center. My hunch is that the majority of tensioner failures are due to the plastic guide breaking in half at the center and either lodging in the sprocket (breaking the chain) or leaving the metal piston in direct contact with the chain. BTW, the chain slap startup noises were gone after the new tensioner went it, but now at 125,000 miles they are fairly consistently back.

Picture of old tensioner with cracks:
 

Attachments

  • 763D4E2A-06AE-4ADD-A77D-D3F8635F50F7.jpeg
    763D4E2A-06AE-4ADD-A77D-D3F8635F50F7.jpeg
    1.6 MB · Views: 197

ROH ECHT

K04 PLAY
Location
PDX OR
Car(s)
2007 MKV GTI
That is good what you noticed and shared. I have seen many posts of the guides falling apart before anything else was wrong. And the broken bits of the guide never appears to have worn thin...it just comes apart. If we only had a running list of those mileages from each who had them come apart. I know I'm pushing it to do the chain and tensioner swap at 160k miles. I just hope it makes it.
 

ROH ECHT

K04 PLAY
Location
PDX OR
Car(s)
2007 MKV GTI
*Not yet sure if this is all accurate...hoping to gain more confirmation on this*
One thing I have noticed is the "N205 Duty %" shown in MB-091 Block two (noted in the pic below).
Still haven't worked out the 'good' range you should see. But the duty % shouldn't be too high.
When it is high, then it is reflecting a failure for oil pressure to operate throughout the VVT system.
I have seen posts where one recently replaced the chain and tensioner when the duty % was noticed to be high. A new genuine tensioner was installed in place of the aftermarket one and the problem was resolved.

Oh...BTW, the Adjustment (both specified and actual) on this one in MB 091 was good, but the Phase Position in MB 093 was -8°KW:
atenfuxx.png
 
Top