Front sway bar install

[kettch]

I'm trying to install an APR front sway bar on my 2006 GTI. I've got the APR bar in position and just need to bolt everything back up but for the life of me I cannot get the subframe cradle to line up with the holes in the subframe. I've got the cradle on my jack so the height is fine but the passenger side of the cradle is about 1.5" towards the front of the car from the holes and the driver's side is about 2" towards the front of the car from the holes. Prying doesn't seem to do anything other than pull the cradle further away from the subframe even when I'm prying it completely horizontally.

Is there some trick to getting the subframe cradle back in position? I watched ECS Tuning's video on their bar install and the subframe cradle on their car seems to have just dropped straight down whereas mine seems to have been pulled forward somehow.:help:

 

[TypeR_126]

No trick, other than there a lot of things that need to align all at the same time, steering rack brackets, sway bar brackets, etc.

Pics might help troubleshoot.

 

[kettch]

Well, looks like the problem was because I had the car on ramps, which the instructions say is possible. However, once the subframe cradle and steering rack were disconnected they were being pulled the wrong direction by the load being on the wheels, which the instructions clearly state is required to do the install correctly (really just for connecting/disconnecting the endlinks under load).

After talking with one of the APR guys this afternoon, he said that taking the load off the wheels when connecting/disconnecting the subframe cradle and steering rack usually is the best way to go. Given that part of the issue was I've never done an install on a front sway bar before so there was a learning curve involved on my part, but I'd still have appreciated some mention in the instructions that if you don't have access to a shop lift (or just pay a shop to do it) that the best approach for install on the FSB is:

* Put the car up on ramps, disconnect end links under load
* Take the car off ramps, jack the car onto stands
* Disconnect everything else, swap the old bar for the new bar, reconnect everything else again
* Take the car off stands, put back on ramps, reconnect end links under load
* Be happy you're done

Hope this helps someone else.

 

[jcurotto23]

How's the apr fsb?

 

[kruegernaut]

I too recently figured some of this out the hard way doing H&R sway install. I had three different DIY's including APR. I started on ramps and half way through realized that with no droop the subframe will not fall much at all to get the sway out. I was doing Tyrol Deadset too and needed some space to get the bushings in. Like OP I realized that getting the subframe back up to where it is supposed to be was next to impossible. I had to enlist a friend to work the jack while I pushed and pulled the subframe to get stuff inline. I started with sway bushings leaving them loose, then steering rack, then LCA's, then subframe bolts, once all threaded, then tightened down evenly. I spent hours on it. I highly recommend renting lift time to do this kind of job, but if you must use jackstands, dont bother with ramps at all, and have a friend that will help you when the time comes. Also interesting note, 6mm triple square... dont need it on the front, the bolt just comes off. I tried using it and snapped the bit in half...

Is it worth it? At this point Ill say yes, but the day after I finished I didnt think so, lol... I had just rear sway in for a few days before doing the front. It is a significant change in my opinion, and now that I have a couple hundred miles on it, I am extremely happy with the mod.

This is good info too if your trying to chose brand and size: http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45368

 

[Perpetuus]

I too recently figured some of this out the hard way doing H&R sway install. I had three different DIY's including APR. I started on ramps and half way through realized that with no droop the subframe will not fall much at all to get the sway out. I was doing Tyrol Deadset too and needed some space to get the bushings in. Like OP I realized that getting the subframe back up to where it is supposed to be was next to impossible. I had to enlist a friend to work the jack while I pushed and pulled the subframe to get stuff inline. I started with sway bushings leaving them loose, then steering rack, then LCA's, then subframe bolts, once all threaded, then tightened down evenly. I spent hours on it. I highly recommend renting lift time to do this kind of job, but if you must use jackstands, dont bother with ramps at all, and have a friend that will help you when the time comes. Also interesting note, 6mm triple square... dont need it on the front, the bolt just comes off. I tried using it and snapped the bit in half...

Is it worth it? At this point Ill say yes, but the day after I finished I didnt think so, lol... I had just rear sway in for a few days before doing the front. It is a significant change in my opinion, and now that I have a couple hundred miles on it, I am extremely happy with the mod.

This is good info too if your trying to chose brand and size: http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45368

Props to you. I tried doing my tyrolsport deadset with the car on jackstands, but it was near impossible to line up some of the bolts, especially since everything is located so precisely and doesn't give much room to angle the bolts slightly when locating the subframe. Cross-threading was a real worry.

In the end I just put in the collars for the WALK brackets, and left everything else stock. Maybe for another day...

One other thing- I put my car back to the stock swaybars. Also had H&R 26mm front and 22mm rear like you before. I suspect that the deadset kit is more important when the swaybars are stiffer, since I don't get any clunking at all now, even with just the four collars installed.

 

[TypeR_126]

The trick with the deadset collars is to make sure you've separated the front control arm horns from the main subframe, then when you go to do the install start with the four main collared bolts.

- Run them in at least until they just start to engage with the subframe.
- Now start the bolts that connect the horns to the main subframe. Run them down but leave about 2mm loose.
- Then do the steering and and swaybar mounts with everything semi-loose. Tighten them all the way, but only hand tight. Because of the way they compress you have to tighten these in mostly equal amounts. ( you can't just run one all the way down and then do the other side).
- Now you can tighten the main four all the way.
- The last to get fully tighten are the horn bolts.
- Once everything is nicely hand snugged you can do all the final torques and angles. FWIW, I usually go in order of least to most in terms of torque settings.

I've dropped my subframe at lest 5-6 times with this method (and half of those with the collars) and never had too much trouble. It's just more tedious than anything else.

 

[Perpetuus]

The trick with the deadset collars is to make sure you've separated the front control arm horns from the main subframe, then when you go to do the install start with the four main collared bolts.

- Run them in at least until they just start to engage with the subframe.
- Now start the bolts that connect the horns to the main subframe. Run them down but leave about 2mm loose.
- Then do the steering and and swaybar mounts with everything semi-loose. Tighten them all the way, but only hand tight. Because of the way they compress you have to tighten these in mostly equal amounts. ( you can't just run one all the way down and then do the other side).
- Now you can tighten the main four all the way.
- The last to get fully tighten are the horn bolts.
- Once everything is nicely hand snugged you can do all the final torques and angles. FWIW, I usually go in order of least to most in terms of torque settings.

I've dropped my subframe at lest 5-6 times with this method (and half of those with the collars) and never had too much trouble. It's just more tedious than anything else.

Awesome. The control arm horns are the two aluminium brackets that locate and hold the control arms, right?

Which ones are the four main collared bolts in the diagram below?

 

[TypeR_126]

Correct about what I'm referring to as the horns.

Sorry for the confusion on the main bolts, there are actually six. I always forget about the inner crash bolts in the rear. So 1, 2 and 7 are the main bolts with collars.

3 and 4 are for the steering and sway bar mounts. They pass through both the main flat part of the subframe and the control arm horns.

5 is the forward bolt for the control arm attachment.

The two unmarked bolts on the rear control arm bracket need to stay loose during install as well.

1, 2, and 7 will be fixed in place so everything else needs to shift around them. The complication is that you really don't have much room to maneuver the sway bar brackets and the steering rack if you just crank these all the way down out of the gate. So getting them close enough that the "nipple" start to engage with the subframe will get you into the right alignment while still allowing you some room get your hands in there and position everything else.

If you look at the Tyrol install pdf here you can see an exploded view of everything and get a better idea how they all fit together.

If you don't loosen the horns from the main subframe and the rear brackets you'll be fighting it forever.