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Iran.....

R-Mac06

HO-Town Down!
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O-TOWN
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06 UG GTI
Anyone remember how the Gulf War and the War on Iraq started?

from what i remember it went a little something like this....

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070122/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iran_nuclear

its not as bad because they let some inspectors in but still seems like things are starting to heat up in the already extremely volitaile region!
 

Tensixty6

Old & Senile
When you say Gulf War, do you mean "desert Storm"?

Iraq invaded Kuwait and American and coalition forces were given a UN mandate to go in and drive them out of Kuwait....which they did....I seem to recall at the time the President George Bush Snr was criticised by some people for not continuing on into Baghdad to overthrow Hussein. President Bush, if l recall, said no because he did not have a mandate to do that.

The War on Iraq on the other hand was "justified" by President George W. because of alleged Weapons of Mass Destruction (fabricated) and a link between Hussein and Osama Bin Laden (also fabricated). I can't help thinking about all those poor young American men and women who are fighting and dying, so far away from their families and the land that they love....FOR WHAT!!! Democracy in the Middle East, give me a break. End of rant.
 

bennylenny88

bora bora dude
Location
Wigan, UK
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just watch jarhead :tongue:
 

Wild Hare

.: MR. BIG STUFF :.
Location
Nortvest
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2015 Golf R (TUNED)
I served during Desert Shield/Storm. I was irate when we didn't go the distance and the Special Forces shared that they had Saddam in the crosshairs of a snipers rifle.... Bush Sr. said no.
We have been paying for it ever since.

That Bastid did have WMD... he buried it and/or stored it in nearby countries (one smart fella). After seeing intel on how he killed numerous innocent lives.. that man had to be dealt with. Unfortunately the UN is worthless at carrying anything out. So the US has been the worlds 9-1-1 service for some time now.
After being in the Military for 20 yrs I'm disappointed at our efforts. No one in today's military has the balls to fess up to the President and tell him what they truly need to go after this.
The thing that disappoints me the most is that both sides (Demo/Repub) can't pull their heads out of their asses and come up with a better solution.
They'd rather attack the current plan and bash Bush. The most negative side is that our troops see all this BS and just wonder WTF.

And counting on the Iraq President/ government will be interesting to say the least. We can't pull out at this point... the terrorist will surely gain more strength and come to our shores once again. Who knows maybe we will have to cut & run after all.

BTW, where the hell is Osama?
 

Edition 30 UK

Loud Noises!
The thing that disappoints me the most is that both sides (Demo/Repub) can't pull their heads out of their asses and come up with a better solution.
They'd rather attack the current plan and bash Bush.


Unfortunate choice of phrase when talking about politicians.....
 

LasVegas

Don't h8 Me Cuz I'm Stock
Location
Las Vegas, NV
LOL! Does anyone remember watching Dick Cheney telling the reporter where the WMDs were. Looking back that is both funny and disgusting at the same time. I'd have to say it completely destroys his credibility. Then again, he's already a politician so that should have been a given.
 

thomaschh

Banned
Location
PNW
When you say Gulf War, do you mean "desert Storm"?

The War on Iraq on the other hand was "justified" by President George W. because of alleged Weapons of Mass Destruction (fabricated) and a link between Hussein and Osama Bin Laden (also fabricated). I can't help thinking about all those poor young American men and women who are fighting and dying, so far away from their families and the land that they love....FOR WHAT!!! Democracy in the Middle East, give me a break. End of rant.

Man, you really are a sheap to the far left aren't you? You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about - just repeating what the other extremists yell all day long. I'm sorry to get so irritated over this but I'm getting really, really sick of this crap. No one ever fabricated everything. Please remember correctly that BOTH parties, and nearly every single government on the planet AGREED that they had WMD. And they did have an active nuclear program - why do you think there were inspectors there?!

Just because we didn't find something that was there at one point doesn't mean anyone fabricated or lied about anything. When you think something incorrectly do people start calling you a liar? No, of course not because THAT DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE.

I could go on and on about how politicians on both sides said and suppported one thing and then as soon as it was inconvenient changed their story. It happens all the time. Remember the intern sex scandal involving the republican senator a couple months ago? Well what you don't realize is that less then 8 years ago a democrat senator got in trouble for the exact same thing! But instead of being ostracized from his party and being blasted from the other side as a rapist he was applauded for his strength to stand up through it all. My point isn't that one side is better than the other - just that things are so vicious now that the middle has completely dissapeared. And I for one think that that is BAD news - and you're feeding it.

No offense, but please, stop with the ignorant ranting. Get your facts straight and think for yourself. :thumbdown:
 

Bad hare

Ex-mkv owner
Location
Long Island, NY
I served during Desert Shield/Storm. I was irate when we didn't go the distance and the Special Forces shared that they had Saddam in the crosshairs of a snipers rifle.... Bush Sr. said no.
We have been paying for it ever since.

That Bastid did have WMD... he buried it and/or stored it in nearby countries (one smart fella). After seeing intel on how he killed numerous innocent lives.. that man had to be dealt with. Unfortunately the UN is worthless at carrying anything out. So the US has been the worlds 9-1-1 service for some time now.
After being in the Military for 20 yrs I'm disappointed at our efforts. No one in today's military has the balls to fess up to the President and tell him what they truly need to go after this.
The thing that disappoints me the most is that both sides (Demo/Repub) can't pull their heads out of their asses and come up with a better solution.
They'd rather attack the current plan and bash Bush. The most negative side is that our troops see all this BS and just wonder WTF.

And counting on the Iraq President/ government will be interesting to say the least. We can't pull out at this point... the terrorist will surely gain more strength and come to our shores once again. Who knows maybe we will have to cut & run after all.

BTW, where the hell is Osama?

:clap:

i gotta agree with him. granted not finding any WMD's was a blow. And i don't want to play the left wing / right wing bit. I take stuff from both sides. But, we've dug ourselves so far into shit now, that one simply has to ask, how do we get out?
Its easy to blame the parties that got us into this mess. But like thomasschh said, we have to see why bush made the decisions he did. And at the time, thats what seemed right.

All the fabricated comments i don't agree with. Its easy to see why they seem fabricated now.

We can't leave. if we do, we seriously created a a breeding ground for terrorists.
Now is it our place to be the worlds police, i don't think so.

In essence, i actually stand between both thomaschh ( as to why we made our decisions) and with wildhare ( what the fuck are we doing in iraq ).

here is a question:

you guys think 20k plus troops will help us out?
DO you see us leaving by the expected 09 / 2010 mark?
 
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Wild Hare

.: MR. BIG STUFF :.
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2015 Golf R (TUNED)
I truly don't think 20k plus will be enough. It would have to be far more and we really need the Iraq people to stick up for themselves.
We have to do the best we can and get more people in there to "train" the Iraq forces and get the heck out when the time is right.
If we cut & run now, shit will hit the fan (more fighting and killing the innocent people WILL take place) worse than we can ever imagine.

We need to tone it down, train them and then move out of Dodge and not with our tails between our legs. I just don't think the 20k will be enough. I wish was still in and knew what's up our sleve... cause the media knows nothing and they just report what will make you watch them more!

And BTW, Ahmadinejad is one scary fella... I can not imagine a nuke in that man's hands. Just remember who held our people hostage way back when in Iran!
 

thomaschh

Banned
Location
PNW
I actually agree with you both - 20K more troops isn't enough but at this point there's no way he'll be able to send more with so many people saying it's wrong to send any at all.

It's tough but the truth is I actually do think history will prove that this was the best thing to do given the situation and the ultimate consequences of inaction. I've actually looked back at news articles from around the beginning of WWII before America got involved and they're totally the same stuff as we're reading now - about how it's a nuisance that will go away and we shouldn't get involved, etc.

But I personally believe we're in the midst of some scary ass people (like Wild Hare said) and there's no amount of negotiating or sanctions that will make them stop. When people are brainwashed since they're children to want you dead you can't talk them out of it. And that's what we're seeing. I don't like war just as much as nobody likes it, but I will be brave enough to say that we're lucky to have them fighting themselves over there instead of us over here - IMHO.
 

michaelmark5

MOREFIRE!
Location
Rochester NY
Car(s)
MKV's
I served during Desert Shield/Storm. I was irate when we didn't go the distance and the Special Forces shared that they had Saddam in the crosshairs of a snipers rifle.... Bush Sr. said no.
We have been paying for it ever since.

That Bastid did have WMD... he buried it and/or stored it in nearby countries (one smart fella). After seeing intel on how he killed numerous innocent lives.. that man had to be dealt with. Unfortunately the UN is worthless at carrying anything out. So the US has been the worlds 9-1-1 service for some time now.
After being in the Military for 20 yrs I'm disappointed at our efforts. No one in today's military has the balls to fess up to the President and tell him what they truly need to go after this.
The thing that disappoints me the most is that both sides (Demo/Repub) can't pull their heads out of their asses and come up with a better solution.
They'd rather attack the current plan and bash Bush. The most negative side is that our troops see all this BS and just wonder WTF.

And counting on the Iraq President/ government will be interesting to say the least. We can't pull out at this point... the terrorist will surely gain more strength and come to our shores once again. Who knows maybe we will have to cut & run after all.

BTW, where the hell is Osama?
Thats the truth:help:
 

Tensixty6

Old & Senile
I would like to respond to the vitriol from THOMASCHH that followed my comments about WMD and terrorism links in respect the war in Iraq. You will notice that l will put my views across WITHOUT RESORTING to the popular tactic of “labelling” or “categorizing” a person with an alternative viewpoint so as to depict him or her as a person of inferior intellect.

I am not a sheep, nor am l a sheap for that matter. Just because l support a popular view, doesn’t mean I’m incapable of thinking for myself.

I will retract my previous comment about the Iraq Weapons of Mass Destruction as being fabricated. That would infer that I believe they didn’t have any. Frankly, I’m not sure, one way or the other. But then, even Colin Powell couldn’t make up his mind.

In a speech in Cairo in February 2001, in answer to a question about the US led sanctions against Iraq, Powell said, “the fact that the sanctions exist – not for the purpose of hurting the Iraqi people, but for the purpose of keeping in check Saddam Hussein’s ambitions toward developing weapons of mass destruction. We should constantly be reviewing our policies, constantly looking at those sanctions to make sure that they are directed toward that purpose. That purpose is every bit as important now as it was ten years ago when we began it. And frankly they have worked. He has not developed any significant capability with respect to weapons of mass destruction. He is unable to project conventional power against his neighbours. So in effect, our policies have strengthened the security of the neighbours of Iraq…”

Two years later, Powell is compelled to stand before the UN Security Council and make a case for war against Iraq based on information supplied by the White House, which, if not fabricated, was at the very least dubious beyond measure. I didn’t buy it then and l don’t buy it now. What Colin Powell was not told was that one of the sources who provided information about the alleged “bioweapons labs” mounted on trucks was a Iraqi defector who was regarded by the Defense Intelligence Agency as a liar and a fabricator. This was according to David Kay, the CIA’s chief weapons inspector in Iraq after the war.

That speech, by Secretary of State Powell was the precursor, the justification if you like for the invasion. It was rubbish. It was just an excuse.

I’m not afraid to say, I don’t support the war in Iraq, it should never have happened. It was doomed to failure from the start.

As was stated in a newspaper editorial today…..George Bush is caught between the impossibility of his beliefs and the harsh realities of the political and public opinion that he continues to misjudge. To him, Iraq is a war in which America can be victorious; to much of the wider world, it is a diabolical mess largely of America’s making that has to be cleaned up, not won. The President is marooned; America is isolated”. Couldn’t have put it better myself.
 

kirk180

Go Kart Champion
Location
USA
But like thomasschh said, we have to see why bush made the decisions he did. And at the time, thats what seemed right.
Thank You Tensixty6! IT's comment like this that get me going. I just deleted a huge reply to it. Some would have probably found it to be offensive. So I digress. But I will say this. I believe the whole report of WMD was purposely falsified. It just doesn't add up and those that needed to resign or hush up did just that. So now we'll never know. Thus leaving the president looking clean slated on something he knew was a bunch of BS from the get. Could it have possible been about oil or paybacks?...Bush?...Cheney?...Maybe?
 

Tensixty6

Old & Senile
I doubt if we'll ever know the real reason for the debacle that is Iraq. I just wish the White House had been more forthright about its' real motives. I don't care if it's about oil, or it's payback time for the way that lunatic Hussein was able to thumb his nose at President Bush Snr after Desert Storm, revenge for 9/11, whatever.

Maybe the American administration just wanted to have a crack at promoting a government in Iraq that was more....pro West.

I can fully appreciate that those soldiers that fought in Desert Storm were frustrated at not being able to "finish the job". The sad thing is that America gave support to some of the factions who were prepared to take on Hussein immediately after Desert Storm and then promptly left them hanging when they needed the help they were expecting. That's speculative however so it doesn't account for much.

The other sad thing that l find really annoying these days is that as soon as you voice any opposition to the war in Iraq, you're accused of supporting terrorism.

I just hope a solution can be found to put an end to the nightmare. Too many young, innocent, American lives have been lost. Lives wasted. It's not fair.
 
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