FSI cam follower issue solved by h2sport(roller follower kit)

[sirsycott]

http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4484254&page=8


i'll post the text here for anyone who hasn't been monitoring this


We have successfully tested our fuel pump drive upgrade and have determined the kit contents. But before we get to that, here's some background info.

The Concept:
In essence the upgrade uses a roller cam follower in lieu of the stock flat face follower. The advantages of the roller follower are long life and lower friction.

The Details:
In detail the new roller follower is larger in diameter than the original flat face follower. This requires a new mount bracket that houses the roller follower and mounts the fuel pump – see below.

Upgraded Roller Follower (left) and Fuel Pump Mount (right)

Also, and most importantly, the cam profile is revised to achieve the right fuel pressure at the right time. Revising the cam profile is necessary because the lift of a roller follower versus a flat face follower isn't the same. Simply put you can’t just swap a flat face follower for a roller follower and get the same lift. You have to revise the cam profile too. To the casual eye the new profile may look like the old, but when view side-by-side the difference is obvious.



Revised Cam Profile (lower left) and End Cover

One challenge with the upgrade kit was determining how to cost effectively revise the cam profile and modify the end cover. In the end we decided the best way will be for customers to send us their intake cam and end cover to which we will install the revised cam profile and modify the end cover – all with same day turn around.

The Kit
The compete upgrade kit consists of a roller cam follower, a fuel pump mount bracket, a revised cam profile installed onto the cam, modifying the end cover, longer fuel pump mount bolts, O-rings, new valve cover gasket, and new end cover gasket.

The price for the complete kit will be CDN$425 (about US$400) but we have an introductory price of CDN$335 (about US$316). Kit availability information is coming soon.

 

[phil]

waiting for more information

 

[Lucidity]

Honestly I thought this was vaporware for quite sometime. At this point I don't know if it's worth it, the follower would need to be replaced an excess of 6 times, and there is no word on if this will work with an upgraded HPFP....

Prepare for a shit storm of posts....

EDIT: Crazy $1000 core charge on this....

 

[darcness]

I think if it's worth it to the end user, it's a great fix. For the price you're getting a fairly large amount of machined pieces to make everything work. With what's included in the fix, I'd expect the price to be much more. Introductory price is simply amazing for what you're actually getting.

Hell I'd be willing to pay the $1000 core charge in all honesty. That way I could do all the work myself and then just send the stuff back and get my core refunded. If you use a zero interest credit card or perhaps a savings account, it won't hurt for turn around time to be a bit longer, and plus it'd be a great learning experience tearing down a 2.0T.

I don't know if it's worth it for me at this point, simply because I still don't have excess wear on my follower at nearly 30k miles, at least 10k of which has been running Stage II. I'll keep a closer eye on it now that I did my HPFP rebuild, and if I start seeing more wear, this could be a viable option for me.

I think the main people who will jump on this are those who are pushing more for performance rather then reliability to be honest. The hardcore guys pushing their K03/K04's to the max would seem to be an ideal candidate for it. When it comes to BT I'm not sure because I have limited knowledge of that. Basically anything that's making the HPFP work near it's limits is what I'm getting at.

 

[utekineir]

the labor is going to be the killer on this looks like,

 

[xSabretoothx]

Wow! I'd have to remove my Cam and ship it? Not sure they are going to get too many takers on this one.

 

[darcness]

Wow! I'd have to remove my Cam and ship it? Not sure they are going to get too many takers on this one.

Like I said, I think the best bet is to do the core exchange. Sure $1000 is a LOT of money, but if you have a savings built up or a zero interest credit card it's kind of a moot point really. You'll still end up paying the same in the end.

I know they are really limited their customer base doing it this way, but when you factor in all the liability and such, it might be the only real way to do it. I'm sure a fair amount of people who aren't afraid to tear down their 2.0T and have the cash/credit to do it would rather "loan" H2O the money for a few weeks and do it themselves.

 

[Lucidity]

I think if it's worth it to the end user, it's a great fix. For the price you're getting a fairly large amount of machined pieces to make everything work. With what's included in the fix, I'd expect the price to be much more. Introductory price is simply amazing for what you're actually getting.

Hell I'd be willing to pay the $1000 core charge in all honesty. That way I could do all the work myself and then just send the stuff back and get my core refunded. If you use a zero interest credit card or perhaps a savings account, it won't hurt for turn around time to be a bit longer, and plus it'd be a great learning experience tearing down a 2.0T.

I don't know if it's worth it for me at this point, simply because I still don't have excess wear on my follower at nearly 30k miles, at least 10k of which has been running Stage II. I'll keep a closer eye on it now that I did my HPFP rebuild, and if I start seeing more wear, this could be a viable option for me.

I think the main people who will jump on this are those who are pushing more for performance rather then reliability to be honest. The hardcore guys pushing their K03/K04's to the max would seem to be an ideal candidate for it. When it comes to BT I'm not sure because I have limited knowledge of that. Basically anything that's making the HPFP work near it's limits is what I'm getting at.

The question is will it work with the available HPFPs.... I didn't read the entire thread, but I scanned for post from the vendor and didn't see any mention of non OEM pump pieces.

Plus how are the determining if a cam is too damaged to return the core charge...

 

[darcness]

The question is will it work with the available HPFPs.... I didn't read the entire thread, but I scanned for post from the vendor and didn't see any mention of non OEM pump pieces.

Well obviously I can't answer that question.

I will say that I don't see why it wouldn't work with rebuilt HPFP's. All of us are still using the OEM follower with upgraded HPFP so what would make this application any different? I don't really see how there would be any conflict to be honest. :iono:

Again, I'm just speaking my opinion on this, I have no idea what H2O will say.

 

[Lucidity]

Well obviously I can't answer that question.

I will say that I don't see why it wouldn't work with rebuilt HPFP's. All of us are still using the OEM follower with upgraded HPFP so what would make this application any different? I don't really see how there would be any conflict to be honest. :iono:

Again, I'm just speaking my opinion on this, I have no idea what H2O will say.

Spring rates between the two would be different and apply additional pressure to the roller. I'm no expert, but they aren't exactly advertising it like it works or that it has been tested with aftermarket parts.

 

[kidthunder]

they are a apr dealer so im guessing they tested the apr pump on it

 

[Akatsuki...]

I think I'm gonna see what's the warranty, how long it takes to get it swapped locally, and how long my stock Cam lasts first.

 

[HoldDaMayo]

Spring rates between the two would be different and apply additional pressure to the roller. I'm no expert, but they aren't exactly advertising it like it works or that it has been tested with aftermarket parts.

use your brain.

 

[Mike@Forge]

A few things I'm concerned about that I haven't seen addressed yet.

- the widely varying additional cost of having your head/valvetrain completely disassembled

- what provision is incorporated to prevent that roller follower from rotating within its housing during operation? The roller needs to be in a fixed position in relation to the cam lobe and it appears to be able to rotate.

- is a DLC coating used on the roller itself or the wall of the follower to prevent/limit wear? given that this follower will essentially actuate faster and 3X more frequently than the rest of the valvetrain components

- how much additional height does this add to the installed height of the pump?

- as was asked in the thread, will it fit under the stock engine cover for those who wish to keep it? (irrelevant to me personally, but not to others)

- how does this additional installed height affect the length of the soft fuel feed lines and the fitment of the hard rail lines that feed the injectors?

I am NOT saying these things have not been addressed by H2Sport. I just didn't see it mentioned.

 

[crypto]

well that's cool they've figured out a solution, it's just a shame how much is involved in fixing the problem. For the price you do get a LOT of stuff, however the install is a decent amount of work.

It looks like I'm gonna get about 40K miles out of my follower (stage 2, stock HPFP)
Figure that over a 200K lifespan at $50 per follower it works out to be $250, which is still cheaper than the H2Sport fix (not including labor costs)

I guess if you're really pushing power out of this car then this would be a good option, but for most people i think it's just too involved