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bilstein hd vs sport

junker

You get an 'F'!
Location
Berkeley
Car(s)
MkV GTI FSI
Hey Kruegernaut!

There are only three things that you can touch with an alignment rack:

  • Front Toe
  • Rear Toe
  • Rear Camber

Everything is going to be a trade-off so the question is how much do you want to balanced aggressive corner handling vs. straight-line stability. And you're going to get a LOT of opinions here.

Check My Garage for what I am running and that would get you pretty close for a daily driver

For Toe all the way around I would do 0.05 - 0.08˚ depending on how much you want your car to track in a straight-line.

For rear camber you can do anything from about -1.2 to -1.8 or even -2.0˚. But good all around is maybe -1.4-1.5˚. Pretty much the rear will stick better than the front on our cars unless you are going to do Scandinavian Flicks or tapping the brakes mid corner to shift weight forward so it won't really add too much. I'd just go with the -1.5 and fine-tune from there to your specific set-up, balance, and preference. Our rears are so light that the camber won't affect inner tire wear that much actually, especially if you rotate your tires every so often. You'll probably end up with about -1.2 camber up front give or take a bit.

If you are spaced too much you might have to add a little more to clear but it sounds like you don't have to worry about that with your wheels and spacers.

While front camber isn't adjustable it's kind of nice to have a bit more in the front...not so much that your braking and acceleration is compromised. 0 camber would be for 1/4 mile drag and 2˚ would be for aggressive cornering. But since we aren't super low the non-adjustable camber isn't really as low as we might like for handling. But there is a trick. After your suspension is installed and mostly settled loosen the three nuts on each strut tower and compress the front of your car. Jump on the radiator support or something, then take a big allen or screwdriver driver and push each strut shaft toward the center of your car - toward your shifter - to give you 0.1-0.2˚ more camber and caster. The Bilsteins have a hex socket at the top of the center tube. Then jump on the front radiator support again to compress and settle everything. Then, cinch down each the strut tower nuts.

Then, you're ready for an alignment! :thumbsup:

It's nice to have a life-time alignment from FireStone or wherever, but if you get it right you might not need another for quite some time.

Let us know how it goes! :wink:


Hi again Junker,

Parts are in and I have next week off, so getting ready for the big install.

Quick question somewhat related regarding alignment. I am putting in front sway with Tryol subframe deadset while doing all of this.

I believe you have this kit as well which will make my car very similar to yours when Im done. Do you have any tips on alignment? I see toe and "rear" camber in your sig. Any advice on front camber, or what that was like when you installed Tyrol subframe deadset? I assume I will be off quite a bit when I center the subframe.

Also on a side note. I went with 8mm spacers in the rear and it looks awesome. I am running after market wheels 18x8 with ET47 offset. If I compare this to your wheels (18x7.5 with ET51) I effectively have built in 10mm all the way around and by adding another 8mm in the rear my effective offset in the rear is now 39 (6 less than you with your rear 12mm spacer because my wheel is 1/2 inch wider). I thought it might be too much, but it looks really good, does not poke, and to the naked eye looks exactly flush with the front, even though it is still a couple mm shy. Thanks for all your posts on spacers you really helped me out.
 
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tantan233

New member
Location
Toronto
I think I'm going to purchase a set of MKVI B8 with Eibach pro-kit springs. But I don't know if I should buy MKVI pro-kit or MKV ones?

Based on Tire rack, MKVI ones avg low 0.8"F & 0.8"R (on MKVI) and MKV ones can low 0.5"F & 0.5" (on MKV).

Any Ideas?
 

junker

You get an 'F'!
Location
Berkeley
Car(s)
MkV GTI FSI
I think I'm going to purchase a set of MKVI B8 with Eibach pro-kit springs. But I don't know if I should buy MKVI pro-kit or MKV ones?

Based on Tire rack, MKVI ones avg low 0.8"F & 0.8"R (on MKVI) and MKV ones can low 0.5"F & 0.5" (on MKV).

Any Ideas?

Do they have a different part #? My guess is even if they do to track the retail mix, they are probably the same. It's just that the 2008 came a little lower stock. Personally, I would recommend linear springs such as VW DriversGear (Eibach) or VWR over the progressive Eibach Pro-Kit.
 

kruegernaut

I'm from Detroit, Man...
Location
Washington
Thanks Junker for that alignment info!

Well I have the install finished. WOW, front sway and Tyrol deadset is a job... made IC install feel like childs play. Anybody reading this thinking about doing subframe drop on jack stands... Man just go rent a lift.

Ok so for Bilstein and DG springs. They are awesome and so far have dropped me about 15mm. Which is what I was hoping for. Its only been 100 miles, so they probably are not quite settled but so far its the perfect drop. Ride is awesome and actually smoother than stock, although my stock setup had 75k miles on it. Im going to schedule alignment a couple weeks out and that should wrap my suspension mod's for now.

Two big question on my mind though. The Bilsteins did not come with any kind of dust boots, and the stock boots would not fit front or rear, so I dont have any in there now. Junker, do you have dust boots? Im a touch worried about this, but there is conflicting info out there. The Bilstein document said to re-use stock, but they just did not fit. Some guys are saying the seals are fine for the job and dont need boot? Either way I cant find a place to buy them. I'm not sure what to think of that. Id be interested to hear what others did on their B8 install.

Also, I have a rattle in passenger rear wheel well. I cant pin point what it might be, everything is torqued down and looking good. There arent very many bolts to deal with back there. Its intermittent, soft, irregular tap, here and there, and does not always happen over a bump. I checked sway endlinks too. Odd...
 

Bunnspeed

Salad Tosser
Location
MA
Car(s)
2008 GTI four door
I'd be highly suspicious of claims that the seals on the struts themselves are fine. There's no way rubber seals wouldn't experience increased wear once grime starts sticking to the slightly oily piston, which then that grime goes in and out against the seals, abrading it. That would, I should think, cause the seals to wear faster and oil to seep out, causing the dampers to wear out sooner than they would if they were protected from grime. That having been said, I have no idea what your solution would be.

As for the bump in your rear wheel well, is it possible it's a tool or socket in your trunk that slipped below the trunk liner and is rolling around against the metal trunk floor? Either that or it's a rear subframe bolt that is stretched.
 

junker

You get an 'F'!
Location
Berkeley
Car(s)
MkV GTI FSI
The rear black hard plastic slider can definitely fit over the rear damper. My fronts have a black boot on them which I'm guessing is stock...although I suppose they could have come with the Bilsteins but I really don't think so but it has been a while now since I did it.

What you do leave out is the front bump stops because they are internal, and you just need to trim off the last nurb of the rear bumpstop to achieve the length value given in the TUV data sheet that should have came with the springs. I beleive it calls for a 110mm and stock is 118mm??

I'm so glad I had a shop install the DeadSet and FSB...no way I would do it without a lift! I feel for you!!!

I've got to jack up my front tomorrow and look over my lip and bumper skin that got caught on an curb stop when reversing...the lane started to go downhill by the stop and it allowed my car to come up over it I guess and catch when reversing. Sigh. No way I would want to be lower than with the DG 2D springs...
 

junker

You get an 'F'!
Location
Berkeley
Car(s)
MkV GTI FSI
Also, I have a rattle in passenger rear wheel well. I cant pin point what it might be, everything is torqued down and looking good. There arent very many bolts to deal with back there. Its intermittent, soft, irregular tap, here and there, and does not always happen over a bump. I checked sway endlinks too. Odd...

I'd go with the RSB link (top or bottom) myself. What about the RSB bracket?
 

silversquirrel

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
New England
front strut boots: My HD's didnt come with any, and I call Billy and they said no. Not included/available etc.

I used a 1" drum sander on a drill, and a hand rasp, to enlarge the hole in the plastic end fitting for the boot, so the Billy shaft fit into it. I left out the bump stop, but other wise was then able to install the stock boot.

Rears boots fit fine, but tighter, because the shock body is a bit larger diameter than stock, and rub the yellow paint off in a few spots. Maybe some tape or other wrap on the rubbing spots to protect the paint.

I took my B6 MKVs out after 4 or 5 K miles because underdamped for my heavy ass 3.2Q A3.
 

kruegernaut

I'm from Detroit, Man...
Location
Washington
Ok cool thanks guys for the replies. In trying to track down the rattle, I ended up taking the rear suspension apart again, and put the stock hard sleeve boot on at that time. I was able to squeeze it over my modified bump stop (second rib because I cut the first rib off), but no bottom collar, which is why I was leary to begin with because now there is about a 1.5mm gap between the shock body and the sleeve. Hopefully gunk dosent get in there, but I feel better having them on. As for the fronts, Im leaving them naked. I suppose I can report back after the winter and be a lab rat on this one. :)

As for this pesky rattle in the rear passenger wheel well. After blowing an entire day with every troubleshooting idea I could think of (I removed everything, some of it twice), I have determined it is a bad shock, and the noise is the piston hitting something inside the shock body. I finally came to this conclusion in lieu of it not possibly being anything else, and ultimatley having a friend jump on the rear passenger interior rocker panel while I listen in side the wheel well while simulating car weight with a jack under the control arm. LOL! What PITA... I had considered warranty approach with Neuspeed but... its only a $95.00 part so, Im just ordering a new one today, and new shock mount and hardware (again) just because Im OCD... Ill report back when I get that in, Im getting it from ECS this time because its on sale there right now. Prob be next weekend.. Id like to get it sorted before alignment. Not that it really matters, Just because.

Ill report back. On a fun note, my Milltek TBE just came in. :)
 

kruegernaut

I'm from Detroit, Man...
Location
Washington
Well, The rattle is fixed! Turns out it was not the shock, it was the shock mount. It also seems that there is a bad batch of the vaico mounts out there right now. The new one I ordered from ECS was also bad, and I ended up putting my OEM mount back in for now. That was definitely the problem, it’s all quiet now. I’m not thrilled with the way ECS handled this, but oh well, they did agree to give my money back for at least one of the mounts. Here is another guy from Vortex who also recently had the same issue. Also the second part I got from ECS clearly indicated this Vortex guy and I are not the only people that have run into this. I wont be buying anymore vaico parts...

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?6117394-Rattle-Clink-after-Bilstein-Shock-Install

Couple of other notes thus far on the DG springs and B8's. I now have about 350 miles on them.

--Bumpstop length in the DG documentation that came with the springs suggested 110mm, but I cut my rears anyway to accommodate the shorter travel of the B8. No issues so far.

--I took a moment to re-torque everything last night while I was installing the passenger rear shock mount. The only thing that had come a touch loose was the top endlink nut on the front struts. No biggie.

--Ride is firm, and very nice. The wife did notice that its "more bumpy" but she didn’t complain really. I think it’s perfect DD feel and handling.

--I have settled to about 343mm in the front and 348mm in the rear. That’s measuring from the center of the axel bolt to the highest point of the fender opening. For my 2008 application that has removed my reverse rake, and settle me very nicely, down from 364mm in the front, and 355mm in the rear. With a full tank of gas, I have exactly a two finger gap with my 18 inch wheels with 225/40 rubber.

--I have my alignment scheduled for 09/20, and at that time I also get my S2+ re-map. :) :) :) I’ll make a final report here after alignment.
 
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zrickety

The Fixer
Location
Unknown
Car(s)
VW GTI
Good info, thanks. Looking forward to your update.
 

freshpots

r'zub n t'zug
Location
Canada
Car(s)
'22 GTI, '19 GT350R
The wife did notice that its "more bumpy" but she didn’t complain really.

I let my girlfriend drive my car all the time, because she loves it... But not anymore, not since I put my suspension in..

Problem solved :biggrin:
 

kruegernaut

I'm from Detroit, Man...
Location
Washington
Thought I would get a couple pics up for those interested. Apologies for not adding tire dressing before taking the first two!

So for the record this is a 2008 MKV 4 door DSG on MKVI 4 door DSG DG Springs with MKVI Bilstein B8 dampers.

Also with my aftermarket wheels and rear spacer combo, my effective offset from stock is 18mm out in the rear and 10mm out in the front.

http://i.imgur.com/5MnOcK1.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/cG7xMZZ.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/YguWpjw.jpg
 

zap

Ready to race!
Location
Gti land
He has a baby seat and subwoofer and said it was level. For 2-3 people the 4D springs might be closer in that case since it lifts the rear 5mm.

Ok Junker, I'm with you. I think what I am getting from this exchange is my rear will be 5mm higher than yours if I go 4D MKVI DG springs. I'm cool with that, reverse rake freaks me out, and I have a touch of that with stock as is. Something worth noting though, MKVI is slightly lighter than our MKV, about 40 pounds I think. No biggie.

I think 4D MKVI DG springs are what I will try, and Ill pair those with MKVI B8's. From where I currently sit I am betting its a 20-25mm drop compared to your 40mm's from 2007 ride height. Ill look for the bumpstop numbers in the box, thanks for that tip.

Im also considering spacers, but not as aggressive as yours. Im on 225's. I'm thinking an 8mm in the back and 6 in the front. I need to measure first.

Thanks. a question: when we change out the old suspension & strut mounts (mine is 100k mileage), do we need change out a new set of bolts and nuts? Saw ecs has a refresh kit with 6 hex bolts and nuts, if required any other bolts/nuts to change out?
 

zrickety

The Fixer
Location
Unknown
Car(s)
VW GTI
The dealers like Keffer sell the hardware as a kit. Part Number: ZVW269007
It comes with various clips too, about $40.
 
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