bilstein hd vs sport

[kruegernaut]

Hi Guys, Great thread, so I am ramping up to do suspension upgrade, and getting the buy list together. I think I have this right, but I am hoping to get some affirmation.

I have 2008 4D DSG MKV with stock suspension at 71K miles. My goal is mild lower, delete rake, increased handling/efficiency/firmness, and replace damper mounts while they are out. I am also adding swaybars (26/22) and Tyrol deadset front subframe kit, but separate from that, for springs and dampers, I am thinking this:

--DG springs for MKV 1K0071679 (will delete front bump stops, and trim 8mm from rear?): http://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen-Golf_V--2.0T/Suspension/Springs/ES315167/

--B8 dampers MKVI version: http://www.neuspeed.com/118/2/0/0/suspension-chassis.html

--Audi TT strut bearing kit: http://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen-Golf_V--2.0T/Suspension/Shocks/ES2627431/

--OEM front bolt set: http://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen-Golf_V--2.0T/Suspension/Shocks/ES8219/

--OEM shock mounts: http://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen-Golf_V--2.0T/Suspension/Shocks/ES251158/

--OEM rear bolt kit: http://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen-Golf_V--2.0T/Suspension/Shocks/ES250812/

--DIY: http://bd8ba3c866c8cbc330ab-7b26c6f...ckcdn.com/VW_MKVI_lowering_spring_install.pdf

Also, came across this thread for those considering DG+B8, nice pics. I am MKV though, but... anyway... http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12098&highlight=bilstein

EDIT: My current ride height is 26 3/16 from ground to front wheel arch, and 26 1/8 in rear. Wheels are 18x8 +47 225/40. For me that is a 3 finger gap. (Im kinda lanky..) I also did the hub measurments and I am at 365.1 in the front and 358.7 in the rear with full tank of gas.

I guess Im really wondering should I be doing MKV 4D DG springs or MKVI 4D DG springs. Wondering what each will lower me, and can I do the B8?

 

[freshpots]

Hi Guys, Great thread, so I am ramping up to do suspension upgrade, and getting the buy list together. I think I have this right, but I am hoping to get some affirmation.

I have 2008 4D DSG MKV with stock suspension at 71K miles. My goal is mild lower, delete rake, increased handling/efficiency/firmness, and replace damper mounts while they are out. I am also adding swaybars (26/22) and Tyrol deadset front subframe kit, but separate from that, for springs and dampers, I am thinking this:

--DG springs for MKV 1K0071679 (will delete front bump stops, and trim 8mm from rear?): http://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen-Golf_V--2.0T/Suspension/Springs/ES315167/

--B8 dampers MKVI version: http://www.neuspeed.com/118/2/0/0/suspension-chassis.html

--Audi TT strut bearing kit: http://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen-Golf_V--2.0T/Suspension/Shocks/ES2627431/

--OEM front bolt set: http://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen-Golf_V--2.0T/Suspension/Shocks/ES8219/

--OEM shock mounts: http://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen-Golf_V--2.0T/Suspension/Shocks/ES251158/

--OEM rear bolt kit: http://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen-Golf_V--2.0T/Suspension/Shocks/ES250812/

--DIY: http://bd8ba3c866c8cbc330ab-7b26c6f...ckcdn.com/VW_MKVI_lowering_spring_install.pdf

Also, came across this thread for those considering DG+B8, nice pics. I am MKV though, but... anyway... http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12098&highlight=bilstein

Looking good but as opposed to DG springs I'd just spend the extra and get a cup kit... Or coils if your budget permits

Also look into upgrading rear sway bars :thumbsup:

 

[kruegernaut]

Hmmmm, I think a cup kit will put me too low. Not interested in coilovers. I was looking at HR OE Springs, but after reading this thread I think DG springs would be better but still meet my goal. So really I am looking for affirmation that I have the right parts list for DG+B8 for my specific car. I am thinking it will lower me about 25mm?

 

[freshpots]

Hmmmm, I think a cup kit will put me too low. Not interested in coilovers. I was looking at HR OE Springs, but after reading this thread I think DG springs would be better but still meet my goal. So really I am looking for affirmation that I have the right parts list for DG+B8 for my specific car. I am thinking it will lower me about 25mm?

Just know that aftermarket springs were not designed to work with your OEM shocks. Honestly, you can't go wrong with an H&R springs paired with Bilstein shocks. 1972vw has a review thread in this subforum if you haven't read it yet.

 

[junker]

Hold up!!!

First, please do not get the MkV 4D springs you will rake hard! MKVI 4D & will drop the back 5mm, and with the MkVI 2D 10mm lower in the rear.

I did the 2D Mk6... If you have lots of cargo or passengers then yeah 4D otherwise I'd lean toward MkVI 2D with the possibility that you would be level to 3mm reverse rake.


Secondly, I'd recommend 26/24mm swaybars if you are going H&R. Most likely you would have those at firm FIRM / SOFT.

I run the front 28mm on soft so that is ~26 stiff. The 22 rear you would for sure have on firm, better 24mm on soft and you can adjust from there to suit taste.

And btw that set-up will destroy any non-race coil overs with drivability, and what cup kits specifically? No way in hell.

 

[junker]

http://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen-Golf_VI--TDI/Suspension/Springs/ES1905249/

Hold up!!!

First, please do not get the MkV 4D springs you will rake hard! MKVI 4D & will drop the back 5mm, and with the MkVI 2D 10mm lower in the rear.

I did the 2D Mk6... If you have lots of cargo or passengers then yeah 4D otherwise I'd lean toward MkVI 2D with the possibility that you would be level to 3mm reverse rake.


Secondly, I'd recommend 26/24mm swaybars if you are going H&R. Most likely you would have those at firm FIRM / SOFT.

I run the front 28mm on soft so that is ~26 stiff. The 22 rear you would for sure have on firm, better 24mm on soft and you can adjust from there to suit taste.

And btw that set-up will destroy any non-race coil overs with drivability, and what cup kits specifically? No way in hell.

 

[kruegernaut]

Ok thanks guys for the quick responses.

Freshpots, yeah I def getting bilsteins, not leaving OEM dampers. I was sold on HR OE springs because I didnt want a big drop, but... after reading all these DG threads I'm excited for an OEM solution.

So Junker, if I have my math right (or close), since I have 2008 MKV its already a bit lower. If I roll the MKVI DG 4D springs, will prob drop me another 15-20mm-ish? I'm adding 5mm because the 4D is that much longer than the 2D. I just dont want to be too low, lol.. Im not sure your height is good for me, I use the car for people alot. Thanks for the tip on sways. I was considering 24 in rear to keep options open, but am still pondering.

What about bumps stops with MKVI DG springs. Leave out fronts, trim rears a touch?

I realize I over thinking this stuff, I tend to obsess.. I suppose I have the right car for my personality. I am really looking forward to the install. Been having lots of fun wrenching.

 

[blkmaggtsp74]

Yeah, you need to trim rear bump stops. And i'm pretty sure you wont be too low. I'm not on DG but H&R sports+B8's and about the same height you seem to be looking for. I have people and cargo in my car at a daily basis with no problems. And i have 235/40-18". Only the slightest rub in the rear going too fast over big dips.

 

[junker]

I think you might be looking at this the wrong way... This has already been analyzed in much more detail then you can possibly realize - like most of these having been purchased and compared by me personally, and non-used items sold or returned.

The end height for a: 2007 MkV, 2008, MkVI will be exactly the same with the same spring when used on either platform.

For your car I don't know the exact drop from stock. I'd have to see the spec in the Bentley but lets go with what they spec in the product description and lets call it a 20-25mm drop for a 2008. Regardless you'll end up with ~1.5 finger gap with linear springs.

The analogous spring between the MkV version and the MkVI version will give exactly the same front drop. Exactly.

The question is what hight do you want in the rear. The MkV 4D springs are very long and have a high spring rate. You will rake unless maybe you have 5 passengers and cargo, and maybe you will still. I can promise you would regret them - there is a reason they lowered them 5mm and softened them with the updated MkVI version and it isn't because the back of the MkVI is lighter...

If you have a 4D and say that you have passengers and cargo then you'd need to do MkVI 4D to be level to a few mm rake.

And just to make sure you realize that there are 4 versions of these for the MkV and 4 for the MkVI. The MkV versions are pretty hard to find these days in any event.

The DG springs come with the TUV data and recommended bump stop length. I've posted images of these somewhere in a few of these DG / Bilstein threads on MKV and on MkVI. I forget if they are 110mm or 118mm.

Ok thanks guys for the quick responses.

Freshpots, yeah I def getting bilsteins, not leaving OEM dampers. I was sold on HR OE springs because I didnt want a big drop, but... after reading all these DG threads I'm excited for an OEM solution.

So Junker, if I have my math right (or close), since I have 2008 MKV its already a bit lower. If I roll the MKVI DG 4D springs, will prob drop me another 15-20mm-ish? I'm adding 5mm because the 4D is that much longer than the 2D. I just dont want to be too low, lol.. Im not sure your height is good for me, I use the car for people alot. Thanks for the tip on sways. I was considering 24 in rear to keep options open, but am still pondering.

What about bumps stops with MKVI DG springs. Leave out fronts, trim rears a touch?

I realize I over thinking this stuff, I tend to obsess.. I suppose I have the right car for my personality. I am really looking forward to the install. Been having lots of fun wrenching.

 

[wronghand]

I think you might be looking at this the wrong way... This has already been analyzed in much more detail then you can possibly realize - like most of these having been purchased and compared by me personally, and non-used items sold or returned.

The end height for a: 2007 MkV, 2008, MkVI will be exactly the same with the same spring when used on either platform.

For your car I don't know the exact drop from stock. I'd have to see the spec in the Bentley but lets go with what they spec in the product description and lets call it a 20-25mm drop for a 2008. Regardless you'll end up with ~1.5 finger gap with linear springs.

The analogous spring between the MkV version and the MkVI version will give exactly the same front drop. Exactly.

The question is what hight do you want in the rear. The MkV 4D springs are very long and have a high spring rate. You will rake unless maybe you have 5 passengers and cargo, and maybe you will still. I can promise you would regret them - there is a reason they lowered them 5mm and softened them with the updated MkVI version and it isn't because the back of the MkVI is lighter...

If you have a 4D and say that you have passengers and cargo then you'd need to do MkVI 4D to be level to a few mm rake.

And just to make sure you realize that there are 4 versions of these for the MkV and 4 for the MkVI. The MkV versions are pretty hard to find these days in any event.

The DG springs come with the TUV data and recommended bump stop length. I've posted images of these somewhere in a few of these DG / Bilstein threads on MKV and on MkVI. I forget if they are 110mm or 118mm.

Are springs for MKV and MKVI completely interchangeable? I know the dampers are.

 

[junker]

Yeah, I did a huge comparison using actual springs and TUV data...

Basically the fronts are the same and the backs are 5mm lower with the MkVI version. The biggest exception is the rears on the 4D's where they went with a softer spring rate on the MkVI. Other than that they are mostly a modified ride height on the rear of about 5mm.

This is what mine looked like with with stock tires sizes and I think with spacers...

MKVI DSG 2D springs on a MkV DSG 4D. With 2D springs the back would be 5mm higher. With MkV DSG 4D springs the rear would be a whopping 10mm higher... And keep in mind this is with the spare and full tank of gas...with the back a loaded down as possible without passengers.

http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3395626&postcount=24

 

[wronghand]

Yeah, I did a huge comparison using actual springs and TUV data...

It's posted on here is a DG vs. VWR thread and some other places.

Basically the fronts are the same and the backs are 5mm lower with the MkVI version. The biggest exception is the rears on the 4D's where they went with a softer spring rate on the MkVI. Other than that they are mostly a modified ride height on the rear of about 5mm.

So MKVI 2D rear is same spring but 5mm lower as MKV. MKVI 4D is softer and 5 mm lower than MKV. Front are same.

I have a MKV 4 Dr. If I understand correctly, my best bet are MKVI 2D springs?

 

[kruegernaut]

Ok Junker, I'm with you. I think what I am getting from this exchange is my rear will be 5mm higher than yours if I go 4D MKVI DG springs. I'm cool with that, reverse rake freaks me out, and I have a touch of that with stock as is. Something worth noting though, MKVI is slightly lighter than our MKV, about 40 pounds I think. No biggie.

I think 4D MKVI DG springs are what I will try, and Ill pair those with MKVI B8's. From where I currently sit I am betting its a 20-25mm drop compared to your 40mm's from 2007 ride height. Ill look for the bumpstop numbers in the box, thanks for that tip.

Im also considering spacers, but not as aggressive as yours. Im on 225's. I'm thinking an 8mm in the back and 6 in the front. I need to measure first.

 

[junker]

Yes.

I think what I am getting from this exchange is my rear will be 5mm higher than yours if I go 4D MKVI DG springs.

Good call. :thumbsup:

I think 4D MKVI DG springs are what I will try, and Ill pair those with MKVI B8's. From where I currently sit I am betting its a 20-25mm drop compared to your 40mm's from 2007 ride height.

Double-check but I think anything <10mm is not hub-centric and could give you vibration problems. A little bit really does look good IMO.

Im also considering spacers, but not as aggressive as yours. Im on 225's. I'm thinking an 8mm in the back and 6 in the front. I need to measure first.

 

[kruegernaut]

Hi again Junker,

Parts are in and I have next week off, so getting ready for the big install.

Quick question somewhat related regarding alignment. I am putting in front sway with Tryol subframe deadset while doing all of this.

I believe you have this kit as well which will make my car very similar to yours when Im done. Do you have any tips on alignment? I see toe and "rear" camber in your sig. Any advice on front camber, or what that was like when you installed Tyrol subframe deadset? I assume I will be off quite a bit when I center the subframe.

Also on a side note. I went with 8mm spacers in the rear and it looks awesome. I am running after market wheels 18x8 with ET47 offset. If I compare this to your wheels (18x7.5 with ET51) I effectively have built in 10mm all the way around and by adding another 8mm in the rear my effective offset in the rear is now 39 (6 less than you with your rear 12mm spacer because my wheel is 1/2 inch wider). I thought it might be too much, but it looks really good, does not poke, and to the naked eye looks exactly flush with the front, even though it is still a couple mm shy. Thanks for all your posts on spacers you really helped me out.