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Old 07-01-2012, 04:35 PM   #23
junker
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Keep us posted. Maybe see how the B6 Bilsteins affect your ride height and how the ride compares to your old OEM shocks.

Can you confirm the amount of lowering the American Eibach Pro-Kit provides:?

Wheel Center to Fender Measurements:

MkV Non-US GTI: 360mm/365mm
MkV US GTI: 382mm/380mm
Current: ?mm/?mm
Amount Lowered over US MkV stock specification: ?mm/?mm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Junker
MkV Non-US GTI: 360mm/365mm
MkV US GTI: 382mm/380mm
Current: 343mm/345mm
Amount Lowered over MkV stock specification: 39mm/35mm

Last edited by junker; 07-01-2012 at 05:01 PM.
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Old 07-01-2012, 05:45 PM   #24
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MkV vs MkVI Bilstein Damping Comparison

MkV vs MkVI Bilstein Damping Comparison Chart
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Last edited by junker; 07-16-2012 at 02:42 AM.
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Old 07-01-2012, 05:53 PM   #25
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n my 06 it ended up lowering it right around 1.1-1.2 inches if i remember correctly from when i got it done and it settled out. I will try and get the center of wheel to fender measurements soon for ya.

Quote:
Originally Posted by junker View Post
Keep us posted. Maybe see how the B6 Bilsteins affect your ride height and how the ride compares to your old OEM shocks.

Can you confirm the amount of lowering the American Eibach Pro-Kit provides:?

Wheel Center to Fender Measurements:

MkV Non-US GTI: 360mm/365mm
MkV US GTI: 382mm/380mm
Current: ?mm/?mm
Amount Lowered over US MkV stock specification: ?mm/?mm
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Old 10-24-2012, 01:59 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by junker View Post
MkV vs MkVI Bilstein Damping Comparison Chart
Junker, can you tell me what the units are for this data? . Im considering having my hds revalved for my A3 3.2q, and trying to educate myself on the compression and rebound numbers.

Also any update on the MK6 hds now that youve had them a while, re handling and ride quality?
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Old 10-24-2012, 05:44 PM   #27
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No doubt Junker's posting is one of the most informative on this forum.
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Old 10-24-2012, 06:52 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the bruce View Post
No doubt Junker's posting is one of the most informative on this forum.
that might be why his mailbox is full... i tried pm'ing, but got bounced.

One thing that is immediately apparent from Junkers bilstein numbers is the rebound to compression ratio is very low.. 1.2:1 for the fronts, both MKV and MK6.
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Old 10-24-2012, 09:06 PM   #29
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Yes, from what I know this is typical to Bilsteins. Others have up to 3:1.

I don't want to anticipate his answer but he's very happy with his Mk.VI B8/sport.
To me these are 2nd best after Íhlins.
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Old 11-28-2012, 05:25 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by junker View Post
Keep us posted. Maybe see how the B6 Bilsteins affect your ride height and how the ride compares to your old OEM shocks.

Can you confirm the amount of lowering the American Eibach Pro-Kit provides:?

Wheel Center to Fender Measurements:

MkV Non-US GTI: 360mm/365mm
MkV US GTI: 382mm/380mm
Current: ?mm/?mm
Amount Lowered over US MkV stock specification: ?mm/?mm
Hi

I'm noob in this. For a Non-US mk5 gti (4dr DSG), will I get the same driving characteristcs if I go for this same setup as Junker's ie DG spring+B8 (mk6) shocks?

Tks
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Old 11-28-2012, 10:42 PM   #31
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Yes, you will.

You also should take the rest of the smaller parts Junker fitted to his GTI.
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Old 11-29-2012, 11:37 AM   #32
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I have the Bilstein B8(mkv) with H&R-springs and i love the handling and feel on this combo!
Yes, it's stiff but not crazystiff. More like very firm. But if you hate the slightest tendency towards more vibrations, it's not for you. On 18 or 19 wheels it's a bit on the rough side as a daily, but on 17's and 225/45 it's no problem.
I tested these against koni yellow and the same springs on a mkvi. Those felt almost like stock. These are more towards mkvi DCC-dampers in sport mode but still slightly stiffer.
Don't know how much better it handles but it feels great!
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Old 11-29-2012, 01:44 PM   #33
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I didn't want to hi-jack this thread and wanted to let everyone know I referenced the information discussed here in a new suspension list I created:

Your Suspension Recommendations for a Daily Driver Enthusiast Setup
http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=175991
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Old 11-30-2012, 12:19 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HYDE16 View Post
I didn't want to hi-jack this thread and wanted to let everyone know I referenced the information discussed here in a new suspension list I created:

Your Suspension Recommendations for a Daily Driver Enthusiast Setup
http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=175991

http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showth...51#post3493351

http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50010
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Old 12-01-2012, 02:23 AM   #35
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Looks like I've missed a lot while I was up in Carmel and Monterey.

I've had 4 suspensions and my current set-up is the current one is the only one that could have seen me on these 2 thousand miles trips. If you want a racing suspension then you are not looking to do what this kit accomplishes - slight lowering, reasonable levels of comfort and travel, and dramatically improved handling.

Here's what I've learned with all the seat time on these various suspensions. I absolutely cannot recommend MKV Bilsteins or Koni Coil-overs. Paired with H&R sports they were stiff enough to literally feel paint, and cause permanent NVH from my headliner / sunroof. It's on you if you order the wrong Bilsteins! And absolutely forget about girlfriend approval. Get the correct Bilstein part numbers from the MkVI model at www.neuspeed.com. To get the Bilstein part number just replace the dot with a dash and search away on-line. They come with free shipping from Neuspeed. Have them shipped out of state if possible to avoid paying CA state sales tax.

The Koni coils have inferior dampers and the springs are a joke. The Bilstein's damper build quality is clearly superior to Koni. They bind and pop, and can only be run lower than what I am looking for. They also have terrible on-center feel and want to wander when driving in a straight line at speed even with spec front and rear toe. There is supposedly a revised spring that you can get under warranty rom Koni NA, but I walked away from my set a long time ago and never looked back.

MkVI Bilstein B6/B8 are an entirely other damper. How it's done I cannot say. Simmsled made some private guesses several months ago, but it's still not clear. When paired with linear MkVI (Auto / 2D) DriversGear or VWR springs I can describe it as much as you can go for a DD. Linear springs do not risk feeling vague and wandering on-line. The auto spring and the VWR have the same exact coil configuration with the VWR being slightly lower. My current MkVI B8 with DG front is at one finger and the back is about the same. If you want lower go VWR, but it is more money and has an unknown manufacturer and metallurgy. DG are made by Eibach and hard to go wrong there. Regardless of whether you want to call DG or VWR springs near stock height is relative. With one finger wheel gap they are lower enough to where I am going to recommend B8 Sports. B8's are ideal with 30-40mm of lowering from stock. The B6's may be fine and give you even more travel (particularly on rebound, but I wouldn't risk it as you may find the car's rider height could be higher, or even un-level, and possibly without enough pre-load to keep the spring seated when lifted or doing Dukes of Hazard moves. B8's work well for sure.

Road manners are ideal 99% of the time. Great feedback and ride comfort. On bad roads it might be slightly too rough for long trips or if you are sensitive to it. Possibly slightly underdamped when run hard at 9/10th...or maybe it's just the deep, tender travel... The damper/shock pairing works harmoniously and I have yet to have a single crashing bottoming-out situation in how many miles now? The amount of travel is quite excellent compared to any of my previously set-ups. In almost all cases the ride quality vs handling performance is near ideal. Fine tuning can be taken care of with tire pressures, alignment, and sway bars. It was good enough that the Ridgeback puked driving up Highway 1 near Big Sur. Thanks Kali! Currently I have both of my H&R sway bars on soft. My alignment specs are posted in my garage and I'll update them there if they ever change.

On my last road trip, I had a female passenger, and 100 lb Rhodesian Ridgeback in the rear with the hatch completely filled with luggage. Even near full-load and laden with fuel I only encountered a very rare rubbing with 12mm rear spacers and 235 tires on the rear, and 10mm spacers on the front. For anyone concerned about rubbing with 235 tires I would suggest not going over 51mm ET-12mm (spacer) -5mm (235 tire) = effective 34mm ET. Don't go over 10mm spacers in rear with stock wheels and 235 tires (12mm can be run safely in most cases with -1.5˚ camber). Without all of this stuff in my car it never happened to me with spacers over months and months. Up front 10mm spacers are the most you can go with stock tires, but for me I may be migrating my 10 mm spacer to the rear and running the stock offset with the added width of the 235 tire.

For installation hardware, always purchase new strut bearings. You do not want have any noises down the road that can be prevented for under $20. High mileage cars should also replace the strut bushing. Bilsteins son't use the front bump stops (they are built-in internally). On the rear I cut off the last (smallest) nub to equal the TUV spec with DG springs (110mm?).

The Bruce also proposes RS3 strut bushings if a more sporty application is desired. And always replace the axle bolts if you do your installation this way. Also, recommended are the 6 next strut bushing to body bolts, and damper clamp bolt and nut. On the rear high mileage cars should also replace the strut bushing and damper bolt. Both installation kits can be purchased from ECS so you don't have to dig up all of the OEM part #'s. Here is another little secret trick - you can add a little extra camber and caster by slightly loosening the 6 bolts from the strut towers and using an allen key in the top of the damper stanchion tube push them toward the center of the vehicle (in and back). Then, re-torque the 6 bolts. Only do this with the suspension loaded so it will settle properly. You can see how far you were able to shift using the old bolt marks in the paint. You should be able to get a few mm.

Hope this helps. Most of the info has been posted previously at this point, but let me know if you have any more questions. I'll try to post new car porn with my current build over the next few weeks.

Last edited by junker; 12-01-2012 at 03:04 PM.
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Old 12-01-2012, 02:50 AM   #36
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Sub'd... Excellent information here, and I'll want to come back to it when it's time to replace my stock dampers.
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Old 12-01-2012, 10:22 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by junker View Post
MkV vs MkVI Bilstein Damping Comparison Chart
Yeah I'm sure the mkvi chassis is stiffer compaired to mkv that's prob why Bilstein soften up dampers for the mkvi. I have the pss~10 since they where released for the mkv back around 08 and even with all the solid bushings and camber/caster plates I have they still ride decent even dialed in stiff , that's with the heavy 29lb factory huff wheels. I can only complain about the progressive springs on decent dips it bottoms out bad. I'm gonna freshen things up and lose 10 lbs @ each wheel with light weight 18" OZ to start which should be here next week. I'm ready to do upgraded spindles and control arms and try to get rid of these Progressive springs. Great thread I over looked Bob G
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Old 12-01-2012, 11:57 AM   #38
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THX Junker !!


I'd like to add three points:

- I bet VWRs are also made by Eibach (VWR sell blue painted Eibach sways as well)
- the stiffer/reinforced strut mounts come factory fitted on Audi RS3, TT, A3 covertible and Leon Cupra (sadly not on S3 and Golf R)
- B6/HD provide sufficient spring tension with DGs and same wheel travel (bump), but stock rebound


No doubt this would be a great DD suspension set-up:

- DG springs
- Bilstein B6/B8 Mk.VI (Mk.V ones if you like it stiffer and do some AutoX/HDPEs)
- occasionally 'mild' aftermarket sway bars
- TT strut mounts
- S3/TT LCA bushings (ALK for increased traction)
- the best summer tires you can afford (ideally Michelin Pilot SuperSport)
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Old 12-01-2012, 02:55 PM   #39
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That list should pretty much be the golden reference for most drivers looking for a balanced, sporty ride. I also love your ability to identify upgraded parts from the VAG parts bin. Thanks Bruce.

Good point about the VWR springs! The set I had looked like the wire was cut slightly differently (v-notched) and with a different shade of blue than DG, but you are probably correct since VWR sways are produced by Eibach.

I'd be interested to actually see someone run the MkVI B6 damper with DG. Have you seen anyone try that combo yet with good results? At least on the 2007 MkVI US GTI the lowering is actually not that close to stock. I'll grab updated lowering values to see where my car has settled.

Quote:
Originally Posted by the bruce View Post
I'd like to add three points:

- I bet VWRs are also made by Eibach (VWR sell blue painted Eibach sways as well)
- the stiffer/reinforced strut mounts come factory fitted on Audi RS3, TT, A3 covertible and Leon Cupra (sadly not on S3 and Golf R)
- B6/HD provide sufficient spring tension with DGs and same wheel travel (bump), but stock rebound


No doubt this would be a great DD suspension set-up:

- DG springs
- Bilstein B6/B8 Mk.VI (Mk.V ones if you like it stiffer and do some AutoX/HDPEs)
- occasionally 'mild' aftermarket sway bars
- TT strut mounts
- S3/TT LCA bushings (ALK for increased traction)
- the best summer tires you can afford (ideally Michelin Pilot SuperSport)
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Old 12-03-2012, 12:31 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the bruce View Post
Yes, you will.

You also should take the rest of the smaller parts Junker fitted to his GTI.
Quote:
Originally Posted by the bruce View Post
THX Junker !!


I'd like to add three points:

- I bet VWRs are also made by Eibach (VWR sell blue painted Eibach sways as well)
- the stiffer/reinforced strut mounts come factory fitted on Audi RS3, TT, A3 covertible and Leon Cupra (sadly not on S3 and Golf R)
- B6/HD provide sufficient spring tension with DGs and same wheel travel (bump), but stock rebound


No doubt this would be a great DD suspension set-up:

- DG springs
- Bilstein B6/B8 Mk.VI (Mk.V ones if you like it stiffer and do some AutoX/HDPEs)
- occasionally 'mild' aftermarket sway bars
- TT strut mounts
- S3/TT LCA bushings (ALK for increased traction)
- the best summer tires you can afford (ideally Michelin Pilot SuperSport)
Thanks, are all the above mentioned in your reply to me in Junker's gti? WOuld you mind list the part no. for the TT strut mounts & s3/tt LCA bushings? Thanks, i hope i dun get the wrong part no. for being noob

Last edited by zap; 12-03-2012 at 12:44 AM.
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Old 12-03-2012, 08:46 PM   #41
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S3 Control Arm Bushings:

http://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen-...ings/ES514232/

All of the OEM parts numbers (Thanks to the bruce!):

http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showpo...7&postcount=13

I have the Whiteline WALK kit vs. the S3 kit but I can't say it's necessarily worth the extra money. While the WALK bushing is stiffer it may need to be lubed occasionally. Can't go wrong with the S3 bushing.

This is my current suspension set-up:

Suspension:
18" VW "Motorsport" Wheels in Anthracite
Michelin Pilot SuperSport 235/40ZR18
H&R 12mm rear spacers
H&R 10mm front spacers
VW Zubehor Linear Springs
MkVI Bilstein B8 Dampers
Whiteline WALK
TyrolSport DeadSet
H&R 28mm Front Sway Bar (soft)
H&R 24mm Rear Sway Bar (soft)
Neuspeed Triangulated Rear Tie-Bar
Euro R32 Underbody Engine-Transmission Cover
Euro BlueMotion Rear Axle Cover
OEM Alignment: 0.05˚ front toe, 0.05˚ rear toe, -1.5˚ rear camber
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Old 12-04-2012, 03:03 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by junker View Post
S3 Control Arm Bushings:

http://www.ecstuning.com/Volkswagen-...ings/ES514232/

All of the OEM parts numbers (Thanks to the bruce!):

http://www.golfmk6.com/forums/showpo...7&postcount=13

I have the Whiteline WALK kit vs. the S3 kit but I can't say it's necessarily worth the extra money. While the WALK bushing is stiffer it may need to be lubed occasionally. Can't go wrong with the S3 bushing.

This is my current suspension set-up:

Suspension:
18" VW "Motorsport" Wheels in Anthracite
Michelin Pilot SuperSport 235/40ZR18
H&R 12mm rear spacers
H&R 10mm front spacers
VW Zubehor Linear Springs
MkVI Bilstein B8 Dampers
Whiteline WALK
TyrolSport DeadSet
H&R 28mm Front Sway Bar (soft)
H&R 24mm Rear Sway Bar (soft)
Neuspeed Triangulated Rear Tie-Bar
Euro R32 Underbody Engine-Transmission Cover
Euro BlueMotion Rear Axle Cover
OEM Alignment: 0.05˚ front toe, 0.05˚ rear toe, -1.5˚ rear camber
Tks much Junker. Since I'm more than 100,000 miles (still all stock parts), besides changing out the springs (DG), struts/shocks (B8), lower control arm bushings (S3), strut mounts (S3), strut mount bearings (SKF), new bolt+nuts and sway bar links (any idea the part no.?).......what else should i change at one go?
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Old 12-04-2012, 08:06 AM   #43
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strut mounts > TT + RS3, not S3 !! ("8J0" part number instead of "1K0")

With 100 kmls I'd also check all rear suspension bushings. On some A3 and Golf these
have already failed at this mileage (similar to the front arm bushings). Don't forget to
fit a new front arm front bushing. VW do sell it separately for quite a few bucks.

On the S3/TT front LCA bushing thread someone has posted the part number of the
Febi made TT bushing (without console) which is way cheaper than the complete OE
S3 or TT bushing (which always come including the console).
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Old 12-05-2012, 03:46 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the bruce View Post
strut mounts > TT + RS3, not S3 !! ("8J0" part number instead of "1K0")

With 100 kmls I'd also check all rear suspension bushings. On some A3 and Golf these
have already failed at this mileage (similar to the front arm bushings). Don't forget to
fit a new front arm front bushing. VW do sell it separately for quite a few bucks.

On the S3/TT front LCA bushing thread someone has posted the part number of the
Febi made TT bushing (without console) which is way cheaper than the complete OE
S3 or TT bushing (which always come including the console).
Thanks, finally managed to find the thread: http://www.golfmkv.com/forums/showth...=Febi.%2333973.

Are both the front & rear bushings the same part?

Tks

Last edited by zap; 12-05-2012 at 04:11 AM.
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