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Old 11-14-2010, 09:22 AM   #1
laurent.d
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TT/S3 alloy arms & swivels Thread

I’m considering of fitting on my car TT alloy arms, ball joints and alloy swivels bearing.

But all information about those modification are a bit confuse and scattered, so below you’ll find an overview of what I understood reading several tread:

http://sd-2.archive-host.com/membres...ng_Audi_TT.pdf

TT arms are about 6mm longer than GTI/A3 ones and TT ball joint have oblong shape holes which provide 6mm more to play around.

TT arms are also 1,8kg each lighter than GTI/A3 ones.

All together TT arm and ball joint give at the minimum set up 1,6° negative camber and at the maximum set up 2,4° of negative camber.

Parts numbers are:

1- Lower control arm:
Amount required=2 total, 1 per side
Part number=8J0 407 151 D

2- Bolt to attach lower arm :
Amount required= 2 total, 1 per side
Part Number=N 101 410 03

3- Ball Joints:
Amount required= 2 total, 1 per side
Part number= 8J0 407 365 (LEFT SIDE), 8J0 407 366 (RIGHT SIDE)

4- Ball Joint bolts:
Amount required= 6 total, (3 per side)
Part Number= N103 320 02

5- Ball Joint Lock Plates:
Amount required= 2 total, 1 each side
Part number= 8J0 407 175 (176)

But about the swivels, I don’t know if I go for TT ones or S3 ones.

I would like to use TT ones as they provide higher rolling center and Audi A3 race car use them for Nürburgring 24H race.

But, if they seem to look very similar, according to Service Training Audi TT file, TT swivel bearing widen the track of about 13mm each side.

And specific TT track rod outer joint have to used too.

Parts numbers are:

S3 parts number : 3C0 407 253 F replace 257 F
3C0 407 254 F Replace 258 F

TT parts number : 8J0 407 253 D
8J0 407 254 D

Can anyone confirm that TT swivel widen the track or not?
Because it seems that TT arms already widen the track from about 6 to 12mm.

Every comment or further information are welcome.

Last edited by laurent.d; 11-14-2010 at 09:33 AM.
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Old 11-14-2010, 02:53 PM   #2
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i have no clue, but please keep the forums posted. id love to do this mod if its genuinely beneficial
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Old 11-14-2010, 06:45 PM   #3
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Good information. Thanks for the post. Subscribed for future reference.
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Old 11-15-2010, 04:02 AM   #4
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2,3deg of negative camber on max position for me !
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Old 11-15-2010, 12:45 PM   #5
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There are other threads with quite a bit of data already. Read the Audi TT Technical Bulletin, it should answer all your questions.

Someone else posted some findings on TT swivel bearings, it appears the TT tie rods aren't compatible. You may even have to swap the steering rack. And yes you will have wider track unless you swap in GTI wheel bearings. In Canada a company called H2Sport will have a direct replacement swivel bearing for Mk5 GTI with higher roll center feature. They won't be alloy but should still be excellent improvement on traction.

http://www.golfmk5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=123479
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Old 11-15-2010, 06:14 PM   #6
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Thanks bostonaudi,

I've read all those treads, but didn't realy find the answers or at least it's not clear enought for me.

About what I understood, Audi TT outer tie rod ends do not thread onto the GTI inner tie rod ends, but may we should also change inner tie rod end, I don't think steering rack are so much different.

Are you sure that its TT bearing which widen the track and not the swivel?
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Old 11-18-2010, 12:31 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laurent.d View Post
Thanks bostonaudi,

I've read all those treads, but didn't realy find the answers or at least it's not clear enought for me.

About what I understood, Audi TT outer tie rod ends do not thread onto the GTI inner tie rod ends, but may we should also change inner tie rod end, I don't think steering rack are so much different.

Are you sure that its TT bearing which widen the track and not the swivel?
No, I'm not sure on where the wider track is really coming from, you might want to PM the guy in the other thread as he made some attempt to fit them. It was stated the bearing assemblies can be swapped. It's really hard to know without having the parts on the floor and seeing what actually is what.

I haven't taken the tie rod off my car, but typically the inner tie rod end threads directly onto the rack and isn't separable from the tie rod itself. If the inners aren't the same my guess is you'll be looking at a new rack. And if the TT rack isn't compatible with the GTI's steering input shaft or it has a different bolt pattern to the subframe.... see where I'm going? The H2Sport unit will be plug'n'play. C'est tres bien!
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Old 11-18-2010, 05:55 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bostonaudi View Post
It's really hard to know without having the parts on the floor and seeing what actually is what.
Yes that's the problem!
And here in France if you by parts you can't give it back or change it for an other on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bostonaudi View Post
I haven't taken the tie rod off my car, but typically the inner tie rod end threads directly onto the rack and isn't separable from the tie rod itself. If the inners aren't the same my guess is you'll be looking at a new rack. And if the TT rack isn't compatible with the GTI's steering input shaft or it has a different bolt pattern to the subframe.... see where I'm going? The H2Sport unit will be plug'n'play. C'est tres bien!
For me and according to the Service Training Audi TT file, steering rack are barely the same.
Tie rod are usualy in too parts with a ball joint in the midle.

Outer TT/GTI rod are different because GTI track rod is iron while TT are alloy. And then TT thread have to be bigger as alloy is ''softer''.

I'm not considering H2Sport swivel, Or I go fot TT arms and swivel or TT arms and S3 swivel.
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Old 01-15-2011, 07:18 PM   #9
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The oem gti/ a3 inner rods are 310mm long with a thread of 16x1.5mm and the TT ones are 202mm long with the same thread size.

The steering racks are indeed different with the TT one sitting 7mm lower than the A3 or GTI one, but the subframe and bolt location should be the same. To change this out you would need to do a log of work though, including reprogramming the ecu to accept the different gear ratios and motor.

If anyone has more info on the A3 hubs and TT hubs that would be great. I am trying to source cheaper prices on these parts.
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Old 01-16-2011, 12:18 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shortysclimbin View Post
The oem gti/ a3 inner rods are 310mm long with a thread of 16x1.5mm and the TT ones are 202mm long with the same thread size.

The steering racks are indeed different with the TT one sitting 7mm lower than the A3 or GTI one, but the subframe and bolt location should be the same. To change this out you would need to do a log of work though, including reprogramming the ecu to accept the different gear ratios and motor.

If anyone has more info on the A3 hubs and TT hubs that would be great. I am trying to source cheaper prices on these parts.
Scroll down this page, has pic showing alloy swivel bearing (spindle). The OP says they are TT. But the ball joint is mounted on top of the arm, which is more like S3. TT is supposed to go under it.

http://www.golfmk5.com/forums/showth...=69882&page=25
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Old 01-16-2011, 09:14 AM   #11
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Yeah read that. But no part numbers on the a3 hubs. Rumor has it passats may have them too along with aluminum rears... I will check my friends cc and passat later next week :)
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Old 01-16-2011, 09:40 AM   #12
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Passats do have aluminum arms, but not adjustable setup like TT. Swapping for Passat would be purely weight saving.
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Old 01-17-2011, 06:48 PM   #13
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The H20 sport kit is the way to go from all my own research as well. I decided to not tear into the steering to just gain 6mm IIRC of track width. I mounted the ball joint underneath the control arm and this thread is boring without some pics...


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Old 01-17-2011, 06:56 PM   #14
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Old 01-19-2011, 09:20 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shortwave360 View Post
The H20 sport kit is the way to go from all my own research as well. I decided to not tear into the steering to just gain 6mm IIRC of track width. I mounted the ball joint underneath the control arm and this thread is boring without some pics...
I mounted ball plate on top of my TT arms (same configuration as the original GTI arms/ball joints), which also results in the nuts being on top (otherwise you're sinking the nuts into the aluminum arm itself). I don't think they should be mounted like the TT unless you have TT or those long promised H2Sport spindles with the lower mounting point, then plate would go on bottom of arm. Its not a big deal just make sure you tighten the control arms at vehicle height so no bushing binding.

I got -2.0 on both sides at minimum camber setting.
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Old 01-20-2011, 09:52 AM   #16
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So an update without much information.

I'm desesperate to found out more.

My last hope just gone, ther is no parts in stock anywhere all around Paris so I can't check the TT swivel shape.

So accoding to the ''Service Training Audi TT'' file and all what I could read on Forum a:

It seems that TT swivels need the use off TT tie rods which are much shorter than Golf/A3 on's. And fixing hole into the the swivel seems diferent. So it won't fit.

Moreover, nobody can validate that as ''Service Training Audi TT'' says, TT swivel widen the track. So it should widen the track.

I E-mailed Christoph BREUER from Raeder Motorsport in Germany who use to race an A3 in VNL Nürburgring race, and it seems that they use S3 swivel with a custom adjustable balljoint.

It seems that nobody in UK, US, France use TT swivel on Golf/A3.

So far, it seems that the only way to go is S3 swivel.
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Old 01-20-2011, 10:04 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laurent.d View Post
So an update without much information.

I'm desesperate to found out more.

My last hope just gone, ther is no parts in stock anywhere all around Paris so I can't check the TT swivel shape.

So accoding to the ''Service Training Audi TT'' file and all what I could read on Forum a:

It seems that TT swivels need the use off TT tie rods which are much shorter than Golf/A3 on's. And fixing hole into the the swivel seems diferent. So it won't fit.

Moreover, nobody can validate that as ''Service Training Audi TT'' says, TT swivel widen the track. So it should widen the track.

I E-mailed Christoph BREUER from Raeder Motorsport in Germany who use to race an A3 in VNL Nürburgring race, and it seems that they use S3 swivel with a custom adjustable balljoint.

It seems that nobody in UK, US, France use TT swivel on Golf/A3.

So far, it seems that the only way to go is S3 swivel.
My .02, you'd get more performance gain from the H2Sport swivel with its much better roll center, than you will get from shaving a few pounds with the aluminum S3 swivel. Of course, both would be ideal. C'est la vie.
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Old 01-20-2011, 11:55 AM   #18
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May be, but they are still not on the market...
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Old 02-01-2011, 08:18 AM   #19
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TT lower arms, ball joints and S3 Swivel ordered yesterday for me.
+ HPFP Cam follower and RS4 pressure valve, but it's another subject.

That's damn expensive!!
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Old 04-05-2011, 01:23 PM   #20
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Just installed my summer 19''wheels and, with the TT arms, they sit about 8mm more towards outside than before measured on the upper side of the wheel (the tires get out of the fender now but fortunately they don't seem to rub) !
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Old 04-14-2011, 08:45 PM   #21
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I'm going to fit the S3 hubs. S3 arms were fitted last year.

Is anyone able to confirm the part numbers?



Befestigung Bremssattel / caliper:

(S3:) N 910 849 01 = M14x1, 50x55 (8 Stück) (instead of Golf - N 909 488 02 = M14x1, 50x35)

+ nut WHT 000 237 A (8 Stück)


Klemmung Federbein / strut:

N 909 548 02 Schraube (2)
N 101 064 02 Mutter (2)


Mutter für Führungsgelenk an Schwenklager / nut ball joint and hub:

WHT 000 785 (2 Stück)


Mutter für Führungsgelenk an Querlenker / nut ball joint and arm:

N 103 320 02 (oder N 909 429 01 ?) (6)


Schrauben für Silentlager an Aggregateträger / bolts rear bush (alk):

N 105 607 02 (oder N 105 797 01 ?) (4)


Schraube Silentlager an Längsträger / bolt rear bush to chassis:

N 910 398 02 (oder N 908 235 01 ?) (2)


Schraube für Querlenker vorne an AGT/Konsole / bolt arm to subframe:

N 101 410 01 oder ...03 (2)


Zwölfkantbundschraube Radlager / bolt wheel bearing:

WHT 002 795 (2)
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Old 04-17-2011, 12:27 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the bruce View Post
I'm going to fit the S3 hubs. S3 arms were fitted last year.

Is anyone able to confirm the part numbers?



Befestigung Bremssattel / caliper:

(S3:) N 910 849 01 = M14x1, 50x55 (8 Stück) (instead of Golf - N 909 488 02 = M14x1, 50x35)

+ nut WHT 000 237 A (8 Stück)


Klemmung Federbein / strut:

N 909 548 02 Schraube (2)
N 101 064 02 Mutter (2)


Mutter für Führungsgelenk an Schwenklager / nut ball joint and hub:

WHT 000 785 (2 Stück)


Mutter für Führungsgelenk an Querlenker / nut ball joint and arm:

N 103 320 02 (oder N 909 429 01 ?) (6)


Schrauben für Silentlager an Aggregateträger / bolts rear bush (alk):

N 105 607 02 (oder N 105 797 01 ?) (4)


Schraube Silentlager an Längsträger / bolt rear bush to chassis:

N 910 398 02 (oder N 908 235 01 ?) (2)


Schraube für Querlenker vorne an AGT/Konsole / bolt arm to subframe:

N 101 410 01 oder ...03 (2)


Zwölfkantbundschraube Radlager / bolt wheel bearing:

WHT 002 795 (2)


anyone ??







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