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Old 09-05-2019, 02:16 PM   #1
harp86
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Stalling shortly after startup

I recently installed a turborevs intercooler and man was that a hard job on my tod.

Basically i thought i was over the worst of it but was having a mare getting the aftermarket turbo to intercooler silicone hose which i have basically butchered and now fingers crossed on a chinese special arriving soon.

What i wanted to be reassured on in the meantime is if when i did force the hose on , it was on tight and bent in places would be the cause of shuddering and ultimately stalling due to insufficient air flow from turbo to intercooler?

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Old 09-05-2019, 07:34 PM   #2
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Do you have a picture of the bent hose in question?
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Old 09-07-2019, 02:01 AM   #3
harp86
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Not at present but will try and get one. Are we thinking it would have to be really bad to be the cause? Now when starting if i get it to start it will rough idle at 500 and any slight tap on the accelerator it will stall.

The only thing i quickly caught in VCDS was intermittent voltage to MAF but now wondering with me faffing and it not having a run in a while this is now a low battery on top of the other issue

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Old 09-10-2019, 06:29 AM   #4
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OK, now it is worse. Before with a bodge job of hoses and clips the car drove but very quickly had me on the hard shoulder driving until I could get off due to one of the hoses slipping. OK, so that all makes sense to me, the issue was the hose had slipped, there was a leak but it still drove after a fashion.

Now I cannot even get the car to start, so it seems to make the cranking kind of noise but nothing more. So my first thought was battery and after a quick multi meter test it showed 11.8. So I bought a battery charger/maintainer and after 2 days it was showing as full battery and a multi meter test now shows around 12.8. So I am hoping the battery is no longer an issue.

I then thought I would do the trick of disconnecting the battery completely for a bit, not sure why but I was desperate and I have seen it mentioned more than twice (means its gospel right lol) that is kind of resets some things or at least makes the ECU calculate a few things again.

I then looked to the spark plugs and attached is what they look like, would I be correct in interpreting them as burnt out or is that wishful thinking of being the cause?

Any other suggestions, I have VCDS but thought or at least I only seem to be able to do it when the engine is turned over and running.

Really want to get my GTI back on the road.

If it helps and to be completely transparent this has all ultimately come from changing the intercooler,MAP sensor but the drive I mentioned taking it on earlier was with these items in place.

https://1drv.ms/u/s!ApIGq6aoKmBv7lza...Ktk48?e=YSRKxx -Images of potentially bad spark plugs causing the issue. I was then going to try things like manually cranking the engine????
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Old 09-10-2019, 10:06 AM   #5
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Do you have a scanner and are you using it? If you're doing big jobs like aftermarket intercoolers, esp with a VW, you really need to be scanning your vehicle. Otherwise, it can be a crap shoot.
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Old 09-10-2019, 10:12 AM   #6
harp86
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Hi, yes have a scanner but wondering what I can scan without the engine running? As all the autoscan stuff does not seem to be possible whilst I cannot get it started.
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Old 09-10-2019, 10:22 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harp86 View Post
Hi, yes have a scanner but wondering what I can scan without the engine running? As all the autoscan stuff does not seem to be possible whilst I cannot get it started.
Well, it should still have codes stored even if it's not starting - actually, esp if it's not starting, as long as you can turn the ignition into the "on" position. What type of scanner? Do you have one of those VAG software based scanners, or one like me, a more advanced Autel (MX808) that does body scans and pulls trouble codes for all of the reporting systems (and not just diagnostic trouble codes)?
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Old 09-10-2019, 10:31 AM   #8
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Just the VCDS software. I will give it a go tomorrow once I get my new spark plugs in, as judging by the link to the pics I took above they shouldn't be in that state? Although presume no harm done just trying to get codes whilst the engine is in the on position but not starting if no spark plugs in?
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Old 09-10-2019, 12:05 PM   #9
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So i did a scan and nothing of note but this could be largely due to the engine not running? There was one entry against engine for P30 Intermittent low voltage but this will have been when the battery was flat as it has been off the road for coming on 3 weeks now and I have been working on it, part of which was changing bulbs and checking lights etc. However the battery did not show as faulty and charged after hooking up a charger to it. Also all general electrical convenience items seem to be functioning as expected, just not the mechanics of my car :(

I did do a quick readiness check and all was OK apart from O2s and EVAP but again and correct me if I am wrong this is probably due to the engine not running.

I then did various output tests against the injectors and anything I could see with the word fuel or evap in it and all seemed good. Well I say good on the basis that the output test completed but I think that is just confirming signal to be fair and nothing more.

Any other good points to check whilst engine is in the on state but not running that might highlight the problem area.

My spark plug replacements are due tomorrow, so will nervously be anticipating the dreaded engine start tomorrow once they are in.
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Old 09-10-2019, 12:38 PM   #10
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Ok, well, the spark plugs don't look so hot. How long have you had the aftermarket turbo installed? Was it running hot, was that the reason for the aftermarket intercooler? Given the problems you're having, I'm shocked that you're not getting a lot of "fails" in your scan on the body codes if not actual engine trouble codes as well.

Getting back to the spark plugs, that's not good. They appear fouled by oil or carbon, or both. How many miles do you have on your GTI and how long have you owned it (ie - hidden problems from previous owner)?

Finally, did you chip the car as well when you installed the aftermarket turbo? How are you handling the additional fuel needs if you're running higher boost levels - upgraded HPFP / injectors?
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Old 09-10-2019, 03:19 PM   #11
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Hi,

Sorry if i made it sound like I had different but it is the stock k03 turbo in the car.

It has around 130000 miles on the clock.

So since getting it around 5-6 months ago, it has been tuned stage 1 but keeping within current hardware limits. Only additional hardware/replacements at that stage was Revo intake, new HPFP but not higher spec than stock, cam follower, Oil pickup, rocker cover gasket, vvt chain, gasket, tensioner and adjuster, purge valve, R8 coils, iridium ix spark plugs and fuel filter

Since then and it has still been running fine i have had a custom 3 inch turbo back with sports cat exhaust fitted, valve that sits on top of the vvt chain case, crankshaft sensor and thermostat.

I then after having a minor coolant leak went mental and got a new coolant tank and didnt stop there and went for an intercooler whilst i was draining the coolant. I also did the MAP sensor and RPM sensor.

Then had this absolute battle with the hose from intercooler to turbo and that still isnt right to be honest but I have it connected and secure.

Went for a drive and the hose slipped, still could drive home.

Then I have been trying to turn it over ever since limping home.

So started with the rough idle, to 500 rpm and tap on accelerator and die to now cranking but no starting :( put it down to wearing the battery down but now that is charged and still the same.

You would think i got the intercooler for a specific purpose but it was just to basically be ready for stage two to have it retuned based on the exhaust and intercooler differences from when it was last tuned.



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Old 09-10-2019, 03:44 PM   #12
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Ok, wow, you have a s-load of mods - yikes. Nothing wrong with that, but with your mileage, that really opens up the door to possibilities. Btw, what YEAR is your MKV? I didn't see you mention it and it wasn't in your "drives" profile.

When you say you "limped" home after coolant leak, was the car in an actual "limp mode?" Also, was the car overheating due to the loss of coolant? You're sure it did not overheat?

Did the non-starting problem start AFTER the intercooler change and the hose problem? Also, your minor coolant leak - what was causing the coolant leak? Was it just a ruptured hose, or something more serious?

Given all of these changes you've made and all of the issues you're having with the rough idle, the fouled plugs, and the fact it is not starting - I'm shocked you're not throwing a bunch of fail codes.

Hey, btw, the HPFP you mentioned changing out - that was stock? You're sure that's working correctly? Was it brand new? Also, how much gas is in the car - is it more than half full?
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Old 09-10-2019, 04:01 PM   #13
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So it is a 2005.

I call it limp but it was just loss of acceleration due to the boost leak. So not proper limp mode.

The coolant leak was literally a bit of weeping from the top side, noticed by dried coolant so 99.9% sure it didnt overheat at any point and has never gone above 90 whilst ive had it. The thermostat was because it wasnt quickly and consistently getting up to temp.

Yes, over half a tank. Is it worth me checking the rail pressure? Presume it should be taken whilst trying to start and not jusy in the on position. What is the best way to make sure fuel is getting through?

Yes definitely stock and brand new HPFP.

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Old 09-10-2019, 05:35 PM   #14
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Wait, what am I missing, here - 2006 - 2009 were the MKV models. 2005 was still the MKIV model year. Now, you could have a 2006 that was manufactured in late 2005 for the 2006 model year - but I'm not clear on how you have a "2005 MKV."

Let me ask you this - is it the 2.0T engine? If so, you mentioned chains... timing in the MKV was managed by a belt in the earlier models. As I understand it, the later TSI models were chain driven, but all of the early FSI MKVs were belt driven - including my 2008.

One of things I'm wondering given this rather serious issue where the car won't even start - is, if you have a chain (not sure how in an early MKV), but if you have a chain, who did it - you, or somebody else? Is it possible the timing is off? How recently was this done? Also, yes, if you have the ability and tools to test the fuel rails, then by all means, test them and find out what the pressure is. Ultimately, you need fuel, spark, air, and timing... that's it. I also noticed you changed your fuel filter - where is your fuel filter at? I've never touched mine, but I thought those filters were in the gas tank - I'm not even sure where my fuel filter is on my MKV... but, I thought it was in the gas tank.
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Old 09-10-2019, 05:45 PM   #15
harp86
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September 2005:Vehicle make:VOLKSWAGEN
Date of first registration:September 2005
Year of manufacture:2005
Cylinder capacity (cc):2000 cc
CO₂Emissions:192 g/km
Fuel type:PETROL
Euro Status:Not available
Export marker:No
Vehicle status:Tax not due
Vehicle colour:GREY
Vehicle type approval:M1
Wheelplan:2-AXLE-RIGID BODY

So late 2005 making it effectively 2006 by what you have said and just to confirm it is a 2.0TFSI

So it has the belt on the left hand side as your looking at it but for the CAM it has the chain on the right hand side too, think they call it the VVT chain.

It was done by me but that was a good month ago and it got it from 4 degrees off to 2, so that was actually a success. It also resolved a slow cam position error I used to get.

There very well maybe one inside the tank but if memory serves me correct it was just, in fact this is it: https://www.pelicanparts.com/techart...uel_Filter.htm
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Old 09-11-2019, 10:16 AM   #16
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Ugh, okay, I see part of the problem -- thought you were from the NEW York... not the "old" York, lol. You have a UK Golf, so that may explain the 2005/2006 thing. At any rate, I gotcha... but, must admit, I haven't heard of too many people messing with the VVT chain drive or even the fuel filter on the MKV. I've replaced fuel filters in the past, but honestly, I haven't seen anyone bring them up as an issue and wasn't clear there was any maintenance schedule on them... as long as it's done correctly, a new filter would generally be a good thing.

The above said, I noticed on that link to Pelican Parts you sent me, ironically, there were a number of complaints about people have somewhat similar non-start issues like you due to improper fuel filter installation. A new fuel filter at least appears to be a simple fix, but at the same time, looks like a lot of people goofed it up (appears you can cross the input lines in... shows 2 of them going in... and the one guy said he flooded his car). There were a lot of non-start complaints.

So, first of all, a warm welcome from the States... and secondly, when did you change that filter and maybe give it another look just to make sure it's installed and functioning correctly. I'm assuming you trashed the old one, but if not, you might even consider reinstalling it just to give it a try. The fact that your car is not starting at ALL, seems to suggest something is WAY off... fuel, air, spark, or timing. So, maybe check the filter, again, see if fuel spit out under pressure when you release the line -- and maybe also double check your coils as well (noticed you used non-standard coils - I'd recommend maybe giving the individual coil packs a closer look as well).

Finally, clearly you have a good grasp on mechanicals, so you seem to know what you're doing -- I'm just trying to offer you some ideas. Also, I'm still shocked that you're not getting a fail code of some sort... but a fuel filter issue might be just the type of issue that would NOT trigger a fail code.

Last edited by MagicMK; 09-11-2019 at 10:28 AM.
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Old 09-11-2019, 12:01 PM   #17
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Hi and yes York, York. Thanks for the help and advice it is greatly appreciated. Fuel filter was done a while ago and I did it just because I couldn't help myself and caught the bug. Yes it is not so simple as the fuel lines are a pain but although it is questionable as to the life of it and if it should be changed I think for the cost and if you can it certainly is not going to hurt things but then on the flip side if something goes wrong fuel is quite a vital component.

I am going to respond by saying YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES!

Just put the new spark plugs in and after being sat in the car for ages with VCDS (not a lady) sat on my lap with some metrics to measure and trying to pluck up the courage to turn the ignition and BAM! First time it started and started smooth.

I am still paranoid about my make shift hose however but it is on tight so certainly not likely to slip like the last one just looks bad.

So these are my take away's from the whole issue, really think hard about the make of intercooler you choose although to be fair the intercooler itself seems decent but no one else is going to make hoses for it other than the peeps who sent the intercooler so for all the hours and grief this has caused me I probably in hindsight should have gone for a more expensive well known brand.

In terms of the issue that ultimately was burnt out spark plugs causing the cranking but not starting, I can only assume that this was a by product of the hose slipping and causing a boost leak that in turn caused it to fry the plugs...........????????

I stumbled across an incredibly relevant and informative series of vids on Youtube by Astral auto repairs that talked you through step by step all basis to go through when cranking but not starting.

So before the plugs came I got as far as checking the exhaust cam by removing the timing little cover. This confirmed that cam was turning on cranking. This confirms the timing belt is intact.

I then with the oil filler cap off and an inspection light/cam got sight of the intake cam and confirmed that was turning. This confirms that the VVT chain,adjuster and tensioner side of things are not completely knackered or at least not completely broken but still could be a problem area I suppose but that is where a compression test would come in.

I check fuel pressure in the end when it started in VCDS but this could be done by a guage to and would have been my next area of concern should the spark plugs have not made a difference.

Finally my last test would have been to do a compression test as mentioned before and if not good, look to the timing side of things.
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Old 09-11-2019, 04:15 PM   #18
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Awesome - congrats! I actually thought you already changed the plugs (when you showed a pic of them out of the car) and it was STILL not starting, but yes, as I mentioned earlier - they were very fouled, whether carbon or oil, or both. So, were they EVER changed? Not so bad if that's the first time they were ever changed after 130K (kilometers or miles?)... One question you'll have to address is what's causing them to foul so bad (maybe it was boost leak, but maybe it was something else)... your high performance mods could certainly have had an effect - so, probably a good idea to take a look at one of them, again, after a couple thousand miles to see if they're still getting fouled.

At any rate, congrats on fixing the problem. Eventually one of the possibilities - gas, timing, airflow, or spark were going to present themselves, and looks like spark turns out to be the culprit.
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Old 09-11-2019, 04:30 PM   #19
harp86
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Yeah you make a really good point as not long after getting it I put the Iridium ones in that everyone raves about. However not because of this but due to being able to get them quicker and seeing equally good reviews I have put in the R ones. So the old ones probably only did around 4000 miles.

So to answer your question, they are not that old, so it is still concerning with the excessive fouling but good shout and I will deffo be testing one in the not too distant future.

Thanks again, was quite enjoyable getting to know my motor even better, even if it was a bit worrying at times
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