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Old 08-13-2019, 12:20 AM   #1
Perpetuus
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Lightbulb Your experience with subframe collars?

Although the clunking had gone away completely after installing my Tyrolsport subframe collars, I struggled and fought with the now uneven camber between my left and right front wheels. For the longest time (and after many alignment attempts), I believed that one of my spindles were bent, but this was not the case.

Well, turns out that the collars had physically shifted my subframe more to the driver's side - about 1 degree more. This had caused me to lose about 0.4 degrees of front camber on each front wheel since I have to even out the left and right front camber settings to prevent the car from pulling.

Current camber in the front is: -2.1 / -2.1 degrees
Rear camber is now -1.2 / -1.2 degrees

However, I am not happy with this setup and would love to return to my previous -2.5 front and -1.7 rear camber, which was close to perfect for me.

Are the subframe collars neccessary to reduce clunk? Could I simply install VW's latest subframe bolts and spacers and get rid of the clunk as well as regain my lost camber?

If not, what other options do I have?
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Old 08-15-2019, 12:29 AM   #2
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I don't see how you're going to gain camber from removing the collars.

The subframe can just be shifted to even out the camber between the two sides...it can't/won't add any extra camber.

And with it being and equal -2.1 right now...I'd leave it, that's solid.

If you remove them, you could be at -1.7 on one side and -2.5 on the other..for example. And they shift it back and you're back to the -2.1 on each side again.

Side note: whoever did the alignments...those numbers could be skewed depending on if they mounted the sensor to the wheel itself or around the tire and/or also using different equipment (if you didn't go to the same shop)
Just saying
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Old 08-15-2019, 01:39 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snobrdrdan View Post
I don't see how you're going to gain camber from removing the collars.

The subframe can just be shifted to even out the camber between the two sides...it can't/won't add any extra camber.

And with it being and equal -2.1 right now...I'd leave it, that's solid.

If you remove them, you could be at -1.7 on one side and -2.5 on the other..for example. And they shift it back and you're back to the -2.1 on each side again.

Side note: whoever did the alignments...those numbers could be skewed depending on if they mounted the sensor to the wheel itself or around the tire and/or also using different equipment (if you didn't go to the same shop)
Just saying
I wish -2.1 is enough but it's not giving me a balanced setup since I have to reduce rear camber accordingly too.

Basically, my camber plates allow -2.5 max per side, which I had set to before. However, with the Tyrolsport subframe collars, the subframe is no longer centrally located (perhaps the subframe holes are not precise enough). What I mean is that the subframe is now physically shifted to the passenger side. This shift may be small, but it's enough to change the angles of the front dampers.

Alignment after the Tyrolsport collars gave something like -3 camber on right front and -2.3 camber on left front because of this. I tried 5 separate alignments and even bought brand new spindles but no changes at all. Car has not been in any accidents. When I dialed down the side with -3 camber by 1 degree, I arrived at -2.1/-2.1. (This proves that the subframe is not longer centred with the collars)

I suppose I can buy camber plates that have more adjustment, but honestly it feels wasteful because it's an issue with the subframe collars and not with anything else.

If I remove the collars, the subframe will shift back to its natural resting position since it's no longer locked down by the subframe collars. This will equalize left and right camber back to -2.5/-2.5 after adjustment. Just not sure that I will hear any clunks if I use the VW spacers and Audi subframe bolts.
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Old 08-15-2019, 08:06 AM   #4
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Your experience with subframe collars?

There are little Audi collars that work. I buy and replace them once a year and they cost maybe twenty bucks. They donít lock down the subframe at all, they just help guide the subframe. Itís supposed to move to help align the car as designed.


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Old 08-16-2019, 02:08 AM   #5
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Oh, you never mentioned camber plates...that's where you had/gained more adjustment.

Yeah you could try the OEM bolts instead I suppose...nothing to lose there, they're cheap. That is, if you REALLY need that extra camber
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Old 08-17-2019, 11:52 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clownish View Post
There are little Audi collars that work. I buy and replace them once a year and they cost maybe twenty bucks. They donít lock down the subframe at all, they just help guide the subframe. Itís supposed to move to help align the car as designed.


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Thanks! Are these the ones? Why do they need to be replaced once a year?

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/aud...-vw-7m3499349a

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Old 08-17-2019, 11:54 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snobrdrdan View Post
Oh, you never mentioned camber plates...that's where you had/gained more adjustment.

Yeah you could try the OEM bolts instead I suppose...nothing to lose there, they're cheap. That is, if you REALLY need that extra camber
Actually, I would be happy to try another solution to achieve the -2.5 front camber that I am happy with. Is this something I can get by running the TT front control arms? I recall reading -2.7 degrees is what it can be adjust to max (maybe I am mistaken).
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