Question about gaining grip (tire related)

So I currently run some VMR V710 wheels that are 18x8.5 +45 and I run some BFGoodrich GeForce Sport Comp-2 tires at 225/40/18.

My question is this, would there be significant, noticeable gains by upping the tire to a 235/40/18 or 245/35/18 tire? I understand I may need to deal with rubbing, but its hard to do real world tests here as I simply don't have extra tires laying around. That and I've been curious to see if it would actually give me much of a real, noticeable difference to even worry about.

If it COULD be worth it or will be a decent upgrade, I'd be willing to give it a shot and obviously work out any rubbing issues I may have (Which, if you guys have any opinion on that, I'm interested in hearing it. Front fenders have the fender screw mod done and have the inside lip rolled.)

Any opinions are welcome!!! :biggrin:

Handling Mods below :

Handling
* W.A.L.K.
* Bilstein PSS Coilovers
* 28.5m (Solid) DanGSR Rear Swaybar (Powder Coated Prismatic Lava Grey)
* BSH Rear Swaybar Endlinks
* Whiteline Swaybar Lateral Locks
* 034 Track Density Strut Mounts w/ SK Bearings
* BFGoodrich Sport Comp 2 Tires
* Corner Balancing
* Centric Blank Rotors (Front and Rear)
* Stoptech Street Performance Brake Pads (Front and Rear)
* Motul DOT 5.1 Brake Fluid

You should have done significant lap data comparisons using negative camber adjustment and alignment testing LONG before adding tire. On a road course a bigger tire can be slower. Lots of Hondas run a 205 over a 225 because.....it's faster.

The only assurance you have from adding tire is you will deplete your piggy bank faster.

miamirice said:

You should have done significant lap data comparisons using negative camber adjustment and alignment testing LONG before adding tire. On a road course a bigger tire can be slower. Lots of Hondas run a 205 over a 225 because.....it's faster.

The only assurance you have from adding tire is you will deplete your piggy bank faster.

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Well I haven't added anything yet. This is more of a hypothetical situation for a little while down the road when I purchase tires again. It's something that I've been curious about so I figured I'd see what people had to say

My car isn't a dedicated track car, so in its current state I do not have camber adjustment in the front and ultimately I don't know that I will set it up specifically for track use. But it will absolutely pull dual duty as DD/AutoX and maybe the occasional HPDE.

Thanks for the input! :thumbsup:

At minimum invest in a tire pyrometer so you can at least nail down tire pressures and see how far off the factory camber settings are for your setup/tracks

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Wider contact patch will certainly help. Aside from tuning the suspension geometry and tire pressure a limited slip will help greatly.

gti2slow said:

Wider contact patch will certainly help. Aside from tuning the suspension geometry and tire pressure a limited slip will help greatly.

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Wider contact patch will help With what? That's a typical theoretical thought. Any real world auto-X (I don't do) or road racing ( I do) will tell you that a bigger tire is rediculous if you are competing in either and you have not properly set up camber and alignment. Camber adjustment to me is VERY APPEALING for a dual duty car even if your not competing. You can daily drive it with a street alignment and save your inside shoulder , then adjust negative camber for track days and : 1: go faster, 2: not destroy the outside shoulders of the tire.

As I said earlier....plenty of national talent racing Hondas choose a 205 over 225, because after things like: rotational mass, wind resistance, ...etc., a 205 nets them a faster lap time.

Forget about wider tires, what has the OP done in regards to alignment? What is the issue on grip? Turn in, exit , are we talking under steer ? I kind of sense the OP has little track experience.

If this is just a "stance" effort....then proceed and disregard what I said.

I can tell you that a wider tire improves corner speed. I would guess that it would reduce straight line speed from what i have noticed. Have not done side by side comparison. It improves acceleration and would probably win out on a tight course or auto cross on a comparably well set up suspension. I'm not sure about a faster track though. Like i said i have not done a side by side but i can tell you for sure that wider tires inspire a lot more confidence in the corners.

miamirice said:

Wider contact patch will help With what? That's a typical theoretical thought. Any real world auto-X (I don't do) or road racing ( I do) will tell you that a bigger tire is rediculous if you are competing in either and you have not properly set up camber and alignment. Camber adjustment to me is VERY APPEALING for a dual duty car even if your not competing. You can daily drive it with a street alignment and save your inside shoulder , then adjust negative camber for track days and : 1: go faster, 2: not destroy the outside shoulders of the tire.

As I said earlier....plenty of national talent racing Hondas choose a 205 over 225, because after things like: rotational mass, wind resistance, ...etc., a 205 nets them a faster lap time.

Forget about wider tires, what has the OP done in regards to alignment? What is the issue on grip? Turn in, exit , are we talking under steer ? I kind of sense the OP has little track experience.

If this is just a "stance" effort....then proceed and disregard what I said.

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Woah man, I simply came in here to ask a question about TIRES and TIRE SIZES as they pertain to grip. I obviously was under the assumption that a wider contact patch or slightly more sidewall would have some positive effect on grip. I understand that my tires as they sit now are ever-so-slightly stretched, but it doesn't seem to be a problem.

I never said I had a lot of track experience, I also never claimed to know the answer to my own question. And I would certainly hope that your reference to some 'Stance' shit isn't directed at me, and instead someone else in this thread. I drive the piss out of my car, and I don't like the insinuation that I would be doing this for aesthetics.



That being said, I appreciate your input about camber plates. While I didn't ask specifically about them, I've always been curious. :thumbsup:

DerekH said:

I can tell you that a wider tire improves corner speed. I would guess that it would reduce straight line speed from what i have noticed. Have not done side by side comparison. It improves acceleration and would probably win out on a tight course or auto cross on a comparably well set up suspension. I'm not sure about a faster track though. Like i said i have not done a side by side but i can tell you for sure that wider tires inspire a lot more confidence in the corners.

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That's more of my question I suppose, the whole 'inspiring confidence in corners deal'. I worry (Maybe un-neededly) about whether my current sidewall is sufficient and if the micro-stretch that's going on causes worse feel on turn in to a corner.

Track people can get pretty crazy about their hobby, some folks get more worked up over some super unobtanium springrates or .25º geometry changes and sperg out on the concept of "street performance".

Anyhoo think I recall that danGSR was able to stuff 245's on 17's into his wheel wells and maintain some autox friendly camber.

gti2slow said:

Track people can get pretty crazy about their hobby, some folks get more worked up over some super unobtanium springrates or .25º geometry changes and sperg out on the concept of "street performance".

Anyhoo think I recall that danGSR was able to stuff 245's on 17's into his wheel wells and maintain some autox friendly camber.

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I absolutely understand taking your hobby seriously, just don't see the reason in not being civil about things if you know the person you're speaking to doesn't have the same level of knowledge as you do.

I just found a thread on Vortex about that... its a shame that it was so long ago that the pictures died, lol.

Maybe I'll hit him up and see if he still has any input!

High-Performance Handling for Street or Track: Vehicle dynamics, suspension mods & setup - Anti-roll bars, camber adjust (Motorbooks Workshop) https://www.amazon.com/dp/0760339945/ref=cm_sw_r_other_awd_s0oQwbJ7TQ58D

This book is a good investment. It talks about pure track, street, and a combination of both for setups. Has a chapter about the driver and driving techniques as well. I found it a worthwhile read to help understand aspects i wasn't clear on

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FiXXXerX said:

Woah man, I simply came in here to ask a question about TIRES and TIRE SIZES as they pertain to grip. I obviously was under the assumption that a wider contact patch or slightly more sidewall would hanve some positive effect on grip. I understand that my tires as they sit now are ever-so-slightly stretched, but it doesn't seem to be a problem.

I never said I had a lot of track experience, I also never claimed to know the answer to my own question. And I would certainly hope that your reference to some 'Stance' shit isn't directed at me, and instead someone else in this thread. I drive the piss out of my car, and I don't like the insinuation that I would be doing this for aesthetics.

That being said, I appreciate your input about camber plates. While I didn't ask specifically about them, I've always been curious. :thumbsup:

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No offense intended. Camber plates will net you so much more of a result and having tracked an mkv a few times it's an understeer pig. As somebody mentioned earlier, I would be after an LSD first, then camber plates which will pay for themselves quickly in tire longevity. It's a good looking ride.

I've heard the ground control plates are preferred over the IE or VWR ones, as someone who looks at IE as making only quality stuff I dont get this.

Would live to know what others experience with any of the above is.

I've been running IEs for over a year, couldn't be happier


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