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Stage 1 tune

ROH ECHT

K04 PLAY
Location
PDX OR
Car(s)
2007 MKV GTI
The 4 door models are heavier aren't they?

Yes, I think both 3 and 5 door are within 50 lbs of each other.

Yeah you'll need a 3 inch downpipe. I just bought a hundred dollar cat-less pipe off of eBay.

"Need a 3 inch downpipe"? I have a K04 with a 2.5 inch turbo-back...stock exhaust diameter is 2-3/8 inch and 2.5" isn't restrictive for either the K03 or K04 when stock. Why does stage 2 need a 3 inch DP? :wink:
I think my setup proves a 2.5 inch exhaust on a K03 or K04 doesn't restrict HP output and in fact increases torque. Mine produced 363 lb*ft and I trap 112mph in the 1/4mi with crappy Sumitomo HTR ZIII tires, no additives, no lsd, with just the spare removed. My GIAC K04 tune's boost peaked at just 21 psi through all of that.
 
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ROH ECHT

K04 PLAY
Location
PDX OR
Car(s)
2007 MKV GTI
Tuners say it is restrictive, yes. They also developed their tune with certain mods mounted. While in development, Tuners may have even swapped out to different intake and DP's just to be sure the tune has worked regardless what the consumer may have mounted. So, they want their shelf-tune to work for everyone and give you the consumer a list of tune requirements just so there are no issues for anyone. Most only state an intake and DP without the inclusion of size. This goes for shelf tunes...now, custom tunes you can put on whatever you want and go get tuned.

But any way, here we go, I read an article many years ago. One shop, Autobahn in Riverside CA, was doing stage 2 mods on a early MK5. They were doing the intake, turbo back, and tune and concluded the oem size for intake and exhaust were sufficient. Reason they came to their conclusion was; they put the car on the dyno after they tuned it...then again on the dyno after adding the intake, and finally on the dyno after adding the full exhaust. They did do a base run stock first to see the HP gains with the tune. Results were the HP gains after they added the tune did not increase with the addition of the intake or exhaust. Take from it what you will...but it did show the oem bits are not restrictive. My first GIAC tune said I needed an intake and DP...but I just ran it with a drop-in oem location filter and stock turboback. Others are going to argue this and I am aware other tunes have some proof out there that the stage-2 DP and intake did show some slight gains having those bits of hardware. But you go look at Purdy's Golf R running low 11sec 1/4's with a stock intake.
 

vwengineer

Ready to race!
Location
Switzerland
Yeah, I get it. Does the ED30 has a different DP than the normal GTI? Because they do almost 300hp on stage 1. I think the stock exhaust is considered restrictive because of the cats and especially the pre-cat more than its diameter.

My concern would be the pre-cat as on high boost, exhaust gases would be very hot and contained at the turbo outlet by the pre-cat, so that would be a lot of heat transfered to the turbo.
 

ROH ECHT

K04 PLAY
Location
PDX OR
Car(s)
2007 MKV GTI
Yeah, I get it. Does the ED30 has a different DP than the normal GTI? Because they do almost 300hp on stage 1. I think the stock exhaust is considered restrictive because of the cats and especially the pre-cat more than its diameter. Pretty sure both the GTI and ED30 GTI have the same 60mm exhaust. I could be wrong because they do not have the ED30 here...but I cannot find any proof of it being different. The pre-cat only heated up at engine start-up...and if replacing with a DP, the pre-cat will be gone.

My concern would be the pre-cat as on high boost, exhaust gases would be very hot and contained at the turbo outlet by the pre-cat, so that would be a lot of heat transfered to the turbo. The pre-cat is very large...is so for that very reason...to not be restrictive.
Do you think the DP can be at all restrictive when comparing the area that is allowing exhaust out of the turbo and into the DP....and, consider when building max boost that the WG is shut, yes?

 

ROH ECHT

K04 PLAY
Location
PDX OR
Car(s)
2007 MKV GTI
DP and TurboBack makers want to sell their products...they've done nowhere near the research and testing that VW and other makers have done, and they know people have the mindset that bigger is better. Who wants to replace their exhaust with one the same size, right? So they make them bigger and state "less restrictive"...without providing any proof that the oem was ever restrictive at all. I'm a mechanical engineer...and I don't even need to do any math to see the DP area is in no way restrictive to the flow out of the turbo.
 

5aprilc

Ready to race!
Location
Rollinsford, NH
Car(s)
GTI
"Need a 3 inch downpipe"? I have a K04 with a 2.5 inch turbo-back...stock exhaust diameter is 2-3/8 inch and 2.5" isn't restrictive for either the K03 or K04 when stock. Why does stage 2 need a 3 inch DP? :wink:
I think my setup proves a 2.5 inch exhaust on a K03 or K04 doesn't restrict HP output and in fact increases torque. Mine produced 363 lb*ft and I trap 112mph in the 1/4mi with crappy Sumitomo HTR ZIII tires, no additives, no lsd, with just the spare removed. My GIAC K04 tune's boost peaked at just 21 psi through all of that.[/QUOTE]

They wouldn't tune my car to stage 2 at the Volkswagen dealership until I put the 3" downpipe on my car. That's the only reason why I said it was necessary. Whether or not it actually makes a difference over stock is another question.
 

ROH ECHT

K04 PLAY
Location
PDX OR
Car(s)
2007 MKV GTI
They wouldn't tune my car to stage 2 at the Volkswagen dealership until I put the 3" downpipe on my car. That's the only reason why I said it was necessary. Whether or not it actually makes a difference over stock is another question.
We good...just do not want the OP to think there are no other options. A 3 inch DP isn't the only size that works when tuned or for a K04.

Yes, U.S. shelf tuners (APR, REVO, GIAC, Unitronic, etc.) may specify what size they want mounted for the DP because they may have only used the one size in their development. And others may just state DP required. It's always best to select the tuner you will have loaded and then modify if using a shelf tune...ROW where custom tuning is done more often, it seems more common to build however you want and then go tune.
 

5aprilc

Ready to race!
Location
Rollinsford, NH
Car(s)
GTI

golfballer78

Ready to race!
Location
southbay CA.
Car(s)
08' R32 dsg
We good...just do not want the OP to think there are no other options. A 3 inch DP isn't the only size that works when tuned or for a K04.

Yes, U.S. shelf tuners (APR, REVO, GIAC, Unitronic, etc.) may specify what size they want mounted for the DP because they may have only used the one size in their development. And others may just state DP required. It's always best to select the tuner you will have loaded and then modify if using a shelf tune...ROW where custom tuning is done more often, it seems more common to build however you want and then go tune.

I agree with allot of this. Even crossing platforms to other tuner vehicles. Something that made sense to me years ago from someone who built engines basically said you would need to be in the 400+ hp range over stock to necessarily need open air intake and exhaust piping of larger size, stock intake is just fine for minor tune, and stock or slightly larger exhaust tubing is also fine depending how far you go with the build.

The differences I’ve noticed was the reprogram of the engine & haldex modules on my R. Haven’t played with the dsg yet. Only put an aftermarket resonator in the stock exhaust to be able to hear it, exhaust upgrades are too expensive & don’t really do shit for gains. I sold my neuspeed intake to an Audi TT guy again I saw no advantage over airbox with cleanable filter. Cams was a thought, again cost/labor/worth it?

Overall stage1 is a way you can have fun with these cars until you can afford some crazy turbo upgrade project where you really get power.
 

5aprilc

Ready to race!
Location
Rollinsford, NH
Car(s)
GTI
If you would have clicked the link and went to APR's website you would have seen that right now stage 1 is $599. And if you get it done at the VW dealership, they will charge an extra $50 on top of that.
 

Joshohol

Go Kart Champion
Location
Troy NY
Theres a labor charge at almost any place you get a car tuned with apr. The 7 cars Ive had tuned there was always a charge at every place.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk
 
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