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Boost Levels... just hear me out. Experienced guys please read

T0neyDanza

Banned
Location
Hampton Roads, VA
Car(s)
2007 4 door GTI
Ok, so I know every car is different especially once you get into modifying them and cranking boost etc etc. I know how are platforms works, and how at higher RPMS, boost pressure will slowly drop.

For those that don't know, I am APR stage 2+ (FSI) with pretty much every supporting mod including water/meth. Oh and factory IC for now. My front PCV is blocked, and my rear goes to the exhaust for vacuum. It is pulling 3 hg. My AWE boost gauge WHEN TURNED OFF reads about 1.5 psi below 0. It is just a design flaw and I have dealt with it.

So my question is, where exactly should my boost levels be? I have read sooooo many different stories and threads and blah blah blah about all different set ups. From what I gather I should spike just a hair over 20 psi, and then slowly taper to about 15 psi as I approach 6k RPM's. Others are saying they spike id 20's and HOLD at 19 psi. My car however only does that when I am cruising at low RPM's and floor it. It will almost get to 20 (take in account for he gauge being off), then drop to 10-12 psi pretty quick. Everyone else's seems to spike a little higher then HOLD at about 15 psi or so. Obviously the higher RPM's you go the more the little K03 loses its breath. Now by HOLD, should I be staying at 15 or so all the way up to mid 5k RPM range? I need to get someone with VAGCOM and just run boost logs I know, but until I can do that can someone offer me some insight? I'm pretty sure I'm not leaking boost, but there's a chance it doesn't happen until higher pressures are reached.

Oh, and I had it re-flashed at Goodspeed performance in Scottsdale AZ. I had it re-flashed after I installed the HPFP. I have no fuel cuts, but the car still basically felt the same after the re-flash. Is it possible that they just re-installed stage 2? At the track I consistently run a 14.1. I ran a 13.8 once but that was when the stars must have been aligned or something. I feel I should be running faster times given my current set up.

Everything on the car is listed here. I didn't want to re-type everything in this thread.

http://golfmkv.com/forums/showthread.php?t=172205


Any useful info would be greatly appreciated. Thanks guys.
 
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VancouverGTI

Go Kart Champion
Location
Vancouver
The log is the only way to go, if you want real data on your car's performance. Anything else will be very subjective. You'll also want to compare apples to apples, ideally... as in logs from another APR Stage 2+ FSI with similar mods.

I'm TSI, so I can't help you there.
 

T0neyDanza

Banned
Location
Hampton Roads, VA
Car(s)
2007 4 door GTI
The log is the only way to go, if you want real data on your car's performance. Anything else will be very subjective. You'll also want to compare apples to apples, ideally... as in logs from another APR Stage 2+ FSI with similar mods.

I'm TSI, so I can't help you there.

Yeah, I know. I was just wondering if I'm missing something or if my set up seems questionable. I'm gonna have to get a hold of a VAGCOM when I get back to PHX next week.
 

Moosecakes

Ready to race!
Location
eugene
Car(s)
2008 GTI
Sorry to thread jack, but could you drop me a PM or explain how the rear PCV is routed to the exhaust? I just recently put on a BSH comp catch can, and haven't tackled removing the check valve. I'd definitely appreciate the info!

but..... I'm s2+ as well, peak up around 23ish hold to about 14-16 redline if that helps you out any?
 

BAMF

Ready to race!
Location
Jacksonville, FL
Keep in mind when comparing to what other people are reporting, altitude can make a difference. A guy at sea level is going to see different boost readings than a guy in the mountains, even if all else is the same.
 

josein06gli

GLI OWNER
Location
San Diego, Ca
Car(s)
VW Jetta GLI
I'm Apr stage 2+ I spike about 20-22psi and taper off to about 12-13 redline. Moosecakes, I doubt ur holding 14-16 thru redline unless ur ko4?? Ko3 tapers off pretty quick man. I say the 12-13psi at redline and that's being generous imo. Prolly more like 11-12psi. Op my mods are in sig.
 

Moosecakes

Ready to race!
Location
eugene
Car(s)
2008 GTI
I'm Apr stage 2+ I spike about 20-22psi and taper off to about 12-13 redline. Moosecakes, I doubt ur holding 14-16 thru redline unless ur ko4?? Ko3 tapers off pretty quick man. I say the 12-13psi at redline and that's being generous imo. Prolly more like 11-12psi. Op my mods are in sig.

My first and second boost logs showed me about 14.5-15psi right up to redline, im still k03. Then again I believe those were not fully warmed up. I could be mistaken.

I'm going to run some more logs though soon just to see how things are running. I did a fuel press. log the other day and I didn't like the numbers... I'm on a fresh CF, so idk whats up. I wasn't seeing the 129-130 from 4500-5600 as before... idk whats up. Car feels fine.
 

josein06gli

GLI OWNER
Location
San Diego, Ca
Car(s)
VW Jetta GLI
I hold like 17-18 before it tapers off.
 

garrett2

Mia, I'm a cop.
Location
So Cal
The turbocharger condition & mileage can also come in to play.

I spike 23-24 psi and hold 15-16 to redline. I'll take some logs this weekend to confirm. Mods are in sig.
 

07GTI-2.0T

Go Kart Champion
Location
newport news, va
Logging will answer about all your questions. Rail pressure will request up to 129.99bar on stage 2+ and my actual peaks at 131bar at high rpm (5600rpm up), that's how I verified stage 2+ fuel pump file was flashed. My logs show between 2500-3500 rpm stage 2+ is requesting 2-3psi more than I'm making ( requesting 22psi at 2500rpm, i'm making 19psi), then from 3500-4700rpm I'm meeting or exceeding requested and from 4700rpm on I'm about a psi or less down from requested thru 6500rpm but NEVER meeting requested (after 6500rpm boost request go way down and is exceeded). At 6120rpm requested boost is 12psi, I'm making 11.45psi, at 6560rpm requested was 10.73psi and actual was 10.29psi. Duty cycle is maxed (94.9%) until about 2600rpm, then at 2900 drops to 76% (which is odd cause I'm still 2psi below requested at that point). Duty cycle stays in the 70s with a low of 70.2% around 4360rpm. From 5300rpm to redline its 81-82%. Did two 3rd gear runs with minimal difference on a nice 75deg day ( yesterday). Logs look worse on 99deg summer days (wastegate duty cycle is way up, boost curve remains the same).
I too think something is not quite right and didn't feel a huge power increase ( and i installed golf R intercooler at the same time). I'm also at 110k miles and can't find anything significantly wrong. And I can easily hold 20psi in high gear and low rpm but that's not my definition of hold like it seems to be for some. I don't hold ANYTHING, I peak and drop like everybody else with a k03.
 

T0neyDanza

Banned
Location
Hampton Roads, VA
Car(s)
2007 4 door GTI
Sorry to thread jack, but could you drop me a PM or explain how the rear PCV is routed to the exhaust? I just recently put on a BSH comp catch can, and haven't tackled removing the check valve. I'd definitely appreciate the info!

but..... I'm s2+ as well, peak up around 23ish hold to about 14-16 redline if that helps you out any?

I'm not running a check valve. Most others that had done this mod aren't either. If you set it up correctly you shouldn't have to. Basically instead of letting crankcase fumes ooze into a can, and smoke up/make your bay nasty, and not even have a vacuum, you plug the front port, and just run a rubber hose (hi-temp) and heat wrapped down under the car and attach it to the exhaust. A thorough write up is here. http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...xhaust-description-(DIY)-(long)&highlight=PCV


Keep in mind when comparing to what other people are reporting, altitude can make a difference. A guy at sea level is going to see different boost readings than a guy in the mountains, even if all else is the same.

Yeah... The thing is, I am at sea level so you would think my pressure would be higher. I know it's all subjective but I've thought about that, and humidity, ambient air temp, etc.


I hold 18psi at stage 2


Ok this is what I'm talking about... And please don't take this the wrong way. You say you HOLD at 18psi. you mean once you spool and spike at 20ish, you will drop to 18 and stay there until redline? Because that is how I interpret the word HOLD. Or is it you stay at 18 through the mid range RPM's and then taper to more like 13? Comments like this are what lead me to believe my set up is lacking somewhere. Again bryangb I am not trying to be a dick, I'm just trying to get a better idea of how these cars "should" be. Thanks.

The turbocharger condition & mileage can also come in to play.

I spike 23-24 psi and hold 15-16 to redline. I'll take some logs this weekend to confirm. Mods are in sig.

See, I drop to about 10-12 from mid to hi RPM range. Dammit I need VAGCOM...

Logging will answer about all your questions. Rail pressure will request up to 129.99bar on stage 2+ and my actual peaks at 131bar at high rpm (5600rpm up), that's how I verified stage 2+ fuel pump file was flashed. My logs show between 2500-3500 rpm stage 2+ is requesting 2-3psi more than I'm making ( requesting 22psi at 2500rpm, i'm making 19psi), then from 3500-4700rpm I'm meeting or exceeding requested and from 4700rpm on I'm about a psi or less down from requested thru 6500rpm but NEVER meeting requested (after 6500rpm boost request go way down and is exceeded). At 6120rpm requested boost is 12psi, I'm making 11.45psi, at 6560rpm requested was 10.73psi and actual was 10.29psi. Duty cycle is maxed (94.9%) until about 2600rpm, then at 2900 drops to 76% (which is odd cause I'm still 2psi below requested at that point). Duty cycle stays in the 70s with a low of 70.2% around 4360rpm. From 5300rpm to redline its 81-82%. Did two 3rd gear runs with minimal difference on a nice 75deg day ( yesterday). Logs look worse on 99deg summer days (wastegate duty cycle is way up, boost curve remains the same).
I too think something is not quite right and didn't feel a huge power increase ( and i installed golf R intercooler at the same time). I'm also at 110k miles and can't find anything significantly wrong. And I can easily hold 20psi in high gear and low rpm but that's not my definition of hold like it seems to be for some. I don't hold ANYTHING, I peak and drop like everybody else with a k03.


PERFECT! someone that knows how to read logs, and has access to VAGCOM!
This is how my car feels. Luckily I will be moving to Hampton Roads in a month too. I'm sure we will meet up soon enough.

So could it be injectors for you then? Where are you doing all this work?
 

Fernas

Mexibahn Native
Location
Guadalajara, Mexico.
Car(s)
MKV GLI "Red Baron"
Dropping to 10-12psi into redline is absolutely fine with a K03, i have a pretty maxed out K03 on Revo Stage 2+ and my boost around 6000rpm is like 12-13psi, another 1-2 drop to redline sounds about right, i dont go much to redline, i like to shift at 6200rpm usually, then boost go back to a healty 17-ish psi, then drops again, peak on roll racing is probably 24-25psi (Forge Wastegate).
 

07GTI-2.0T

Go Kart Champion
Location
newport news, va
Luckily I will be moving to Hampton Roads in a month too. I'm sure we will meet up soon enough.

So could it be injectors for you then? Where are you doing all this work?

I get most of my work done at a shop in Yorktown called Euro pros ( timing belt, intercooler install, DP, flashes). They are ex Greenbrier VW techs and APR dealer. They've done stage 3 installs, rebuilds, you name it.
I think my problem is more along the lines of either small leak(s) or tired hardware. Fueling seems fine. Well ur welcome to the micro can cable to log when u get to hampton roads!
 
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