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Ukraine - Must be Hard Being a Russian General

golfdave

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Depends how the overflights were declared. NATO aircraft routinely fly over Swiss and Austrian airspace.

I reckon they just hid themselves amongst the masses of cargo planes on the main air route which flies straight over Serbia..

But it puts a new twist on things as Serbia is pro-Russia & pro-Putin......
 

TricycleOfDeath

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So yesterday (Saturday) Serbia just took delivery of a nice anti-aircraft missile system...

Made & delivered by China, who flew 6 Chinese air force "Y-20" transport planes over NATO countries (at least Bulgaria) to make the delivery ..

Serbia takes delivery of advanced Chinese anti-aircraft missile system (msn.com)

So which NATO county should & will shoot down these military planes then in future??

Or is Serbia really cosying up to Putin & will declare war??

Cuba anyone???....
Wait a second. I read about those giant cargo planes (likely copies of America's C17 via IP theft), but I also read that no NATO country wanted to allow the Chinese cargo planes to fly over their air space in order to deliver Chinese Anti Aircraft systems (akin to the S300) to Serbia - which is rather pro Russian country that also wants to be a future EU member.

So, which EU country allowed these Chinese Y20 cargo planes to deliver Chinese-made anti aircraft systems NOT compatible with NATO... during Russia's war with Ukraine?
 
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golfdave

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Wait a second. I read about those giant cargo planes (likely copies of America's C17 via IP theft), but I also read that no NATO country wanted to allow the Chinese cargo planes to fly over their air space in order to deliver Chinese Anti Aircraft systems (akin to the S300) to Serbia - which is rather pro Russian country that also wants to be a future EU member.

So, which EU country allowed these Chinese Y20 cargo planes to deliver Chinese-made anti aircraft systems NOT compatible with NATO... during Russia's war with Ukraine?


NATO member map here (hopefully the member states are shaded in blue/green):-

NATO on the Map

So take your pick...Hungary's president is Pro-Russian....& Bulgaria is pro-Russian...

However, considering the huge amount of cargo planes in the airspace (Flight radar is good) it would be easy for those air force planes to turn off their transponders & "shadow" a friendly Air China cargo plane...look one plane..not two...!!
 

TricycleOfDeath

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Btw, I wanna give a shout out to the CNN anchors and commentators. I have to laugh at those pro-Trump, pro-war, Putin lovers over at Fox News, who all talk tough, but not one of their asses has visited Ukraine... or even Poland, to report on the war! CNN must have had at least 10 of their prime news anchors over there. Also, a HUGE shoutout to war correspondent Clarissa Ward. She speaks like 10 languages (well), and she's fearless. Not just fearless, but very smart at reporting in dangerous places without getting hurt. There should be a News Reporting Balls of Steel Award. I'd certainly nominate her as the first recipient. Now if there was a traitorous douche bag award, then I'm nominating both Tucker Carlson and Sean Hannity. Two Faux tough guys that work for - fittingly - a faux news channel.
 

TricycleOfDeath

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NATO member map here (hopefully the member states are shaded in blue/green):-

NATO on the Map

So take your pick...Hungary's president is Pro-Russian....& Bulgaria is pro-Russian...

However, considering the huge amount of cargo planes in the airspace (Flight radar is good) it would be easy for those air force planes to turn off their transponders & "shadow" a friendly Air China cargo plane...look one plane..not two...!!
Okay, you can't just fly from China over Hungary into Serbia. Yes, Hungary is pro Russian, but tell me how the hell a Chinese Y20 gets in Hungarian air space without flying over a country such as Poland, which is a huge NATO member. So, what is the Chinese Y20's flight path from China to Serbia and not just which countries are friendly with Russia?
 

golfdave

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Okay, you can't just fly from China over Hungary into Serbia. Yes, Hungary is pro Russian, but tell me how the hell a Chinese Y20 gets in Hungarian air space without flying over a country such as Poland, which is a huge NATO member. So, what is the Chinese Y20's flight path from China to Serbia and not just which countries are friendly with Russia?

Bulgaria??.....

NATO map & I've drawn one flight path through Russia..& one straight across other non-NATO countries......like I say Bulgaria (pro-Russian) is the minimum hurdle..(capital Sofia marked on map at this zoom level).

Only other wat is long & across the Med, up the Adriatic & nip across a non-NATO country there..


NATO map.jpg
 

golfdave

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Looks like Serbia ordered this stuff in 2019 & is receiving stuff in batches..

QUOTE:-
Serbia’s FK-3 order was first revealed in 2019 in the annual report of Serbia’s state-run arms company Jugoimport SDPR. In addition to the missile defense system, purchases from China included armed CH-92A drones, which Serbia received from China in June 2020.

FK-3 is a slightly downgraded variant of the HQ-22, which entered service in the People’s Liberation Army in 2017. HQ-22 missiles can engage targets at altitudes of up to 27 km and have a stated range of up to 170 km. Guided by semi-active radar, the missiles are designed to ballistic and cruise missiles, as well as aircraft, helicopters and UAVs.

Coinciding with the peculiar arrival of six Y-20s in Serbia, China’s foreign ministry spokesperson Hua Chunying said China’s foreign minister Wang Yi told his Serbian counterpart Nikola Selakovic in a phone conversation that China would “firmly support Serbia in safeguarding sovereignty, territorial integrity and national dignity and in pursuing an independent foreign policy.”

“China firmly supports Serbia in making judgments & decisions based on the fundamental interests of the country and the nation. We oppose external forces exerting political pressure on sovereign countries, and oppose coercing other countries into taking sides.”



Also looks like more planes headed there today via the Bosphorus

Chinese airlifters deliver FK-3 air defense system to Serbia | Defense Brief (defbrief.com)

Update: A day after the first deliveries, another group of six PLAAF Y-20s was observed heading for Serbia on Sunday, April 10. While the official confirmation is yet to come, these likely included more components of the FK-3 SAM.
 

cb1111

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NATO member map here (hopefully the member states are shaded in blue/green):-

NATO on the Map

So take your pick...Hungary's president is Pro-Russian....& Bulgaria is pro-Russian...

However, considering the huge amount of cargo planes in the airspace (Flight radar is good) it would be easy for those air force planes to turn off their transponders & "shadow" a friendly Air China cargo plane...look one plane..not two...!!
Turning off transponders (and against international rules) is a real bad idea and isn't necessary. If they have a flight plan and pay overflight fees then they can fly. Annex 2 Front.cdr (icao.int)
 
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GTIfan99

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HelloNewman

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Btw, I wanna give a shout out to the CNN anchors and commentators. I have to laugh at those pro-Trump, pro-war, Putin lovers over at Fox News, who all talk tough, but not one of their asses has visited Ukraine... or even Poland, to report on the war! CNN must have had at least 10 of their prime news anchors over there. Also, a HUGE shoutout to war correspondent Clarissa Ward. She speaks like 10 languages (well), and she's fearless. Not just fearless, but very smart at reporting in dangerous places without getting hurt. There should be a News Reporting Balls of Steel Award. I'd certainly nominate her as the first recipient. Now if there was a traitorous douche bag award, then I'm nominating both Tucker Carlson and Sean Hannity. Two Faux tough guys that work for - fittingly - a faux news channel.

I'm not defending Fox News, but they've never been about international news coverage from a boots on the ground perspective. Fox news is basically The View for news. They don't really create news so much as discuss current events. CNN has always done that and the reason for that is that it's great for views. Something they desperately need with the current downward slide they've been on lately as well as the failure of their recently launched CNN subscription service.
 

cb1111

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I'm not defending Fox News, but they've never been about international news coverage from a boots on the ground perspective. Fox news is basically The View for news. They don't really create news so much as discuss current events. CNN has always done that and the reason for that is that it's great for views. Something they desperately need with the current downward slide they've been on lately as well as the failure of their recently launched CNN subscription service.
Fox has been doing a pretty credible job (with the exception of whackjobs like Tucker Carlson and his ilk) with coverage.

I'm sure the people at fox HQs are having lots of discussions along the lines of "TC brings is tons of viewers but he is a nutjob. Do we keep him or fire him"

What is scarier though is that there are enough people who watch - and believe - that drivel.

But - this has nothing to do with this thread, so let's get back on topic.

Russia appoints general known for alleged scorched-earth tactics to oversee Ukrainian invasion | Watch (msn.com)

and

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