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TT/S3 alloy arms & swivels Thread

Loganb

New member
Location
PA
Might be pulling this thread out from the crypt, but i have questions related to this exact topic...

This will probably be a lot of information so let me try to lay it out logically:

Situation- I have a mk6 JSW with koni coilovers designed for a sedan, and 19x9 et 41 Wheels on 255/35/19 tires

Problem- my car suffers from saggy butt syndrome... Since I have extra weight for the rear coilovers to bear that they weren't designed for, the rear tucks the stock 17" wheels even when maxed out in height. However, with the control arms level in the front, it sits higher.

Goal- get parts (likely spindles) that keep the front control arms level or better even at a lower ride height, to balance nice looks, reasonably comfortable ride, and performance (I autocross and plan to track it).

Solution- I wanted h2sport spindles, but it seems that's all but impossible with them seemingly out of commission. So I looked for the next best thing, which seems to be mk2 TT spindles.

Problem with Solution- The trouble is, every time I have read anything about the TT2 spindles on our cars (mk6 golf platform) it also accompanies TT2 lower control arms. I'm not afraid of unwilling to swap the lower control arms, except for the fact that these particular lower control arms push out the track even wider, which will cause issues with the big wheels. This leaves me with two options, and two questions:

Option/Question 1- can the TT2 spindles be fitted to our cars with the stock Golf lower control arms, and will this alone solve the lowered geometry problem? The goal here being, solve the spindle/LCA geometry problem, allowing me to go lower, and preventing the track widening that accompanies the TT2 LCAs.

Option/Question 2- With the additional width that comes from the TT2 LCAs, is there any reasonable way to make the wheels work without miserable rubbing or ridiculous tire-slaying camber? I have a long commute (1.5 hrs each way) to an area with poor quality roads, so this is important. I do have an Eastwood fender roller.

Many thanks in advance!
 

zrickety

The Fixer
Location
Unknown
Car(s)
09 GTI
Great thread, I did Passat parts on the front and Tiguan in the rear (same part # supposedly). Track width increased quite a bit at the rear but the front looks the same? My mk6...
 

xSabretoothx

Fast w/ training wheels
Location
Raleigh, NC
Car(s)
2008 GTI
The rear? What part?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

carsfeverguy

Go Kart Champion
Location
Toronto
I am not responsible for any mods you do to your car. Please be safe. This is written for your minds entertainment, nothing more.


So I wanted to share some of my experiences and bring up for discussion something that has been near and dear to my GTI Experience.

My car sees the track fairly regularly for the last 6 years. and has a personal best of. 1:37.85 at Canadian Tire Motorsports Park( Mosport) GP (passat spindles)



I have tried all above spindles on my car. Currently running safely the TTRS setup( have not tracked it yet)



My car is a 2010 which has the 15.6:1 steering ratio. 2011(some may be split) and on have the 16.4:1 ( slower ratio). So my experiences will vary with what rack you have.



One of the biggest complaints on the TTRS( and all TT) is that their rack is a 16.9:1 (even slower). So in theory a TT spindle with a 2010 Gti rack is the sportiest setup.



Now to the spindles.



My stock ones looked like garbage after 2-3 canadian winters, hence my quest for an aluminum spindle began.



The Passat Spindles were the obvious choice. I also got a boxter caliper setup which worked fine with the passat spindles due to mounting.



One of the tings about this setup is the shorter arm of the spindle which leads to quicker steering. And boy is it quick. So quick that i could get my stability light going just from switching lanes... Yes everything bolted on to spec. Very very quick, maybe too quick sometimes. Nothing that I could not handle, but definitely requiring your concentration. I guess the 2012-2014 Gti will have slightly less quick steering, because of the slower rack which might lower the frequency of intervention of the nannies.


Additionally, as I got quicker, I went for 18z Cayenne Setup matched with the TTRS master cylinder.


Guess what though, this doesn't work with the Passat Spindle, because of the large ears on the Passat spindles throws everything out of whack.



So I had to go back to stock spindles..... to run the 18z while working on fitting the Audi TT spindles



I knew if I would be able to switch to the TT setup, I would be able to have my brakes and my aluminum Spindle.



To fit Audi TT spindles was tricky, and people have done it before , but none were really plug and play.

Hurdles:

- increased track width aka fender issues.
- audi TT inner-outer tierods don't screw in safely in the Gti steering rack. People have milled down the rack... risky stuff but admirable.
- Mistery Inner tierods sold at high price...

- even with those the inners Gti tie rods are too tiny in diameter and overall profile to securely be bolted on the spindle.
-thebruce mentionned he has friends that have swapped the whole rack for a TT, but the TT ratio is 16.9:1 , hence not very sporty.


Advantages:

-aluminium spindle
-increase center roll
-increase track width
-ability to fit more tire/wider wheels
-ability to run Porsche brakes 18z
-increased cooling from running the Audi TTRS, because of the lower ball joint attachment, the duct actually runs lower to the ground and collects more air.


The final solution involved sacrificing the Passat Spindles.

Yes the outer tierod bushing from the Passat Spindle is pressed out, and switched over to the Audi TT spindle.

Before this I even went to get a Audi Q7 outer tie rod, but alas it was to big, so not enough hold to be secure.



My goal with the GTI has basically been to emulate on a smaller scale the Audi TT VLN FWD which set new benchmarks for what a FWD car could do.

Matching the Audi TT spindles with the 15.6:1 ratio, ends up being probably the sportiest, highest performance combo for our platform.

This should also contribute to lowering the nannies intervention that was somewhat annoying with the Passat spindles combination. More testing needs to be done.

I am now one step closer.



More updates as the new driving season is around the corner.
 

kern417

Go Kart Champion
Location
Louisville, KY
one of my tt spindles came in. i know people have already seen pictures to compare the passat and tt versions, but i'm sure a few more wouldn't hurt. the RH side TT spindle should arrive sometime this week (i bought them from separate junkyards to get the best individual prices). this one specifically is from a 3.2 fwd version, i originally thought it had to be from a ttrs but this confirms that all TT spindles are the same. the superpro ball joint fits with plenty of threads available, so my plan is still to run the TT knuckles with passat control arms and stock steering rack.

the only other difference i noticed besides the ball joint mounting location is that the tie rod mounting location looks like it is lower as well.





 

kern417

Go Kart Champion
Location
Louisville, KY
i actually already packed up the passat ones since they are sold. what would i see different than what he found? sounds like what i see, they look the same. i think vw matches the arm position with the ball joint location, and that's why it's lower on the tt spindle.
 

carsfeverguy

Go Kart Champion
Location
Toronto
With all the respect to JRutter, his image of the method he measured the arm was blurred.
Nevertheless his finding disprooved the previous info which said that the steering arm of the tt spindle wae a lot longer...2-3 cm longer as opposed to only 2-3 mm as measured by Jrutter.

This wrong initial info was further taken then things like this appeared.

http://www.projectsofdan.com/?p=181




Again this is false... Hence I asked you to show it again that way people know.

This is also wrong:



My TT swivels are on the car, so I can't, should have thought about it before...
 
Last edited:

kern417

Go Kart Champion
Location
Louisville, KY
understood. looking at them both side by side i could see that there wasnt much difference in length. if i can find my stock ones i can measure those to compare. theyre in a box somewhere forgotten.
 

carsfeverguy

Go Kart Champion
Location
Toronto
Real quick question for everyone. I have cayenne brakes on my car and I know that I the TT and Passat spindles won't work cause the outboard caliper mount face sticks too far out. Would it be possible to get it to work if I put a wheel spacer between the rotor and wheel hub on the spindle?

Wrong Info!!!!

Audi TT spindles work with the Cayenne brakes. Only the Passat ones don't, without heavy machinning of the ears... which cone people have done....
I run 18z with audi TT spindles. Bolt on.
 

carsfeverguy

Go Kart Champion
Location
Toronto
Right info

I went back to get better measurements on the steering arm length, comparing A3 (MK5) to TT (MK2). I get a difference of only 2.4mm rounded up. This is an order of magnitude different from the measurement that everyone has been using! So pretty much no difference between the steering on these two spindles unless this way of measuring is completely wrong...

The geometry of the entire spindle is different, so there are no good reference points to measure from without creating an error due to different diagonals. I created a reference plane by fitting a piece of plywood into the strut clamp, which happens to line up with the ball joint center on each spindle. Then I laid the ruler flat against the steering arm and held it square to the plywood. The ruler is in an archaic measuring system, but the difference is ~3/32" or 2.38mm.

Method:


A3:


TT
 

eurocars

5/17/15 - Never forget
Location
Indianapolis
Car(s)
2006 GTI
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