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TT/S3 alloy arms & swivels Thread

JRutter

old man
Location
Bellingham, WA
I guess that the TT tie rod ends might be needed for some wheels, since the steering arm on the spindle is longer and it could potentially hit at full lock?
[edit] Because the tie rod mount point on the spindle is lower, it is more likely to contact the wheel at full lock because: geometry.
 
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JRutter

old man
Location
Bellingham, WA
I did some comparison measurements that differs in at least one respect from the comparo picture earlier in the thread. The steering arm measurement is much closer. I tried to measure as close to a flat line from the center of the tie rod end hole to the center of the ball joint/axle/strut axis. Because of the drop, measuring just to the center of the axle in the bearing will give a diagonal measurement error.

Part: A3/GTI -- TT/TTRS -- Delta
Wt: 18.4 lb -- 15.0 lb -- 3.4 lbs
Caliper mount thickness: 16.18mm -- 16.11mm -- 0.07mm (none, basically)
Bottom of strut to bottom of ball joint mount hole (drop amount): 178mm -- 212mm -- 34mm
Outside of hub to outside of strut bottom (track width increase): 173mm -- 187mm -- 14mm
Steering arm length: 146mm -- 150mm -- 4mm (as close as I could get it measured, could be less)
 
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Waffle

Ready to race!
Location
Daytona Beach, FL
Car(s)
GLI
I did some comparison measurements that differs in at least one respect from the comparo picture earlier in the thread. The steering arm measurement is much closer. I tried to measure as close to a flat line from the center of the tie rod end hole to the center of the ball joint/axle/strut axis. Because of the drop, measuring just to the center of the axle in the bearing will give a diagonal measurement error.

Part: A3/GTI -- TT/TTRS -- Delta
Wt: 18.4 lb -- 15.0 lb -- 3.4 lbs
Caliper mount : 16.18mm -- 16.11mm -- 0.07mm (none, basically)
Bottom of strut to bottom of ball joint mount hole (drop amount): 178mm -- 212mm -- 34mm
Outside of hub to outside of strut bottom (track width increase): 173mm -- 187mm -- 14mm
Steering arm length: 146mm -- 150mm -- 4mm (as close as I could get it measured, could be less)

Thank you for this!
 

JRutter

old man
Location
Bellingham, WA
Just ordered these to try when I do the spindles. 108mm x 20mm

http://store.034motorsport.com/cv-spacer-kit-15mm-vw-audi-100mm-108mm-cvs.html

 

v8coupe

New member
Location
United States
Has anyone fitting or fiddled with tT rear housings? I'm currently about to install a complete TT front setup including the rack. I'd like the additional track width in the rear if possible.

I am aware of the fender issues, those are already dealt with. This is a track setup AWD bunny.
 

JRutter

old man
Location
Bellingham, WA
I ended up finding a full set of TT axles (front and rear), as well as the rear aluminum spindles so I will be doing the full conversion at some point this year. I mentioned it in the other TT control arm thread, but I did compare the axle length for the driver side front to my OEM and found that fully compressed, the TT is about 8-9mm longer, and fully extended is about 20mm longer. So I won't be using the 034 spacers after all.

I also picked up a second set of front spindles, so if anyone is interested, PM me.
 

v8coupe

New member
Location
United States
I ended up finding a full set of TT axles (front and rear), as well as the rear aluminum spindles so I will be doing the full conversion at some point this year. I mentioned it in the other TT control arm thread, but I did compare the axle length for the driver side front to my OEM and found that fully compressed, the TT is about 8-9mm longer, and fully extended is about 20mm longer. So I won't be using the 034 spacers after all.

I also picked up a second set of front spindles, so if anyone is interested, PM me.


Do you have any pictures of the rear spindles? I'm trying to find some, but haven't been able to. I want to make sure my brake upgrades will swap over back there as well.

My car is a 09 Rabbit with a AWD TDI swap being done, wide body, 18 by 11s all around and compound turbos to run ~350-400HP. Traction and track manners are key here.

TIA
 

JRutter

old man
Location
Bellingham, WA
Stood axles up and pushed them both down until they bottomed out:


Held inside hub against desk and stretched them out. Held outer portion in place at max extension and let inside hub "relax."









The thickness of the casting at the caliper mount is 40-41mm.
 

v8coupe

New member
Location
United States
MK5 brakes swap onto those TT rears correct? Thanks for the pictures i just picked up my tt front suspension (rack, arms, housings, subframe) for my bunny. I have a European AWD Aluminum subframe and diff setup from a GTD.

Sean
 

Perpetuus

Data Encryption
Location
In my garage
Planning to install the S3/Passat spindles tomorrow.

Is it necessary to replace the outer tie rod to spindle nuts?

The torque spec in the repair manual shows only 20 Nm, but specifies an additional 90 degrees. I imagine it's not necessary unless the nut is damaged when pressing the outer tie rod off the spindle?




Also, found this pic on the net. This is all going in tomorrow ;)

 
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the bruce

Go Kart Champion
Location
land
Car(s)
Golf GTI Mk.V 2008
Is it necessary to replace the outer tie rod to spindle nuts?

Yes, it's absolutely essential to use the dedicated collar nut !!

Using the regular nut (for steel swivel) is not safe on the S3/Passat spindles !!

Have a closer look at the aluminium hub and you'll notice the steel insert.
An ordinary nut will just hold the insert, but in case this insert get's loose,
you'd loose steering completely. Imagine what's happens at higher speed.

btw:
The lower ball joint uses similar nuts, they look almost the same, but have
different part numbers.
 

Perpetuus

Data Encryption
Location
In my garage
Yes, it's absolutely essential to use the dedicated collar nut !!

Using the regular nut (for steel swivel) is not safe on the S3/Passat spindles !!

Have a closer look at the aluminium hub and you'll notice the steel insert.
An ordinary nut will just hold the insert, but in case this insert get's loose,
you'd loose steering completely. Imagine what's happens at higher speed.

btw:
The lower ball joint uses similar nuts, they look almost the same, but have
different part numbers.

Ah, I understand. The shouldered portion of the nut allows the nut to not clamp down on the steel insert, which could rotate while cornering and back off the nut.

I searched for the outer tie rod to steering swivel nut for B6 Passat, and got this part number: N90635001

I was under the impression that the B6 Passat had aluminium swivels and aluminium control arms, so the part number should be correct??

But, the picture shows a non-collared nut. What is the correct part number for the collared nut?




For the ball joints, I ordered the Lemfoerder ball joints that come with their own collar nuts. I assume these are ok?

Ball joint part numbers:

3C0407365B - Passat front ball joint, Left
3C0407366B - Passat front ball joint, Right
 
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Perpetuus

Data Encryption
Location
In my garage
Bruce, is this the right collared nut for attaching the outer tie rods to the Passat swivels?

WHT000785


Also found

WHT000785A
WHT000785B

Would the B version be the right one to use?
 

JRutter

old man
Location
Bellingham, WA
On to the trouble with the inner and outer tie rods, as also mentioned before they have different lenghts so you need both the inner and outer tierod from the TT mk2, trouble is then that the inner tierod of the GTI has app. 5 mm without tread that goes inside the GTI steering rack which the TT mk 2 inner tierod doesn't have. So ideally you need the TT mk 2 steering rack which Alex has fitted to his Skoda Octavia Vrs with no problems whatsoever.
As i didn't have a TT mk 2 Steering rack on the shelf we machined the 5mm of the GTI steering rack which as the GTI inner tierod also didn't have any tread, this setup has now been on my car more than 6 month without issues, not even on track.
On a sidenote, when you extend the trackwidth with app. 22mm you are stretching the GTI driveshafts to the max and ideally you need the TT mk 2 driveshafts as well.
Actually there is 2 options as there's
1. an OEM setup with different length driveshafts.
2. an OEM setup with equal length driveshaft for the High power cars.









Any questions please ask, and i'll try to answer :biggrin:

The TT training document mentions the revised larger taper on the tie rod ends, which I have measured at about 1.8 mm difference in diameter. So it seems best to use the TT tie rods, like you did.

When you said that someone fitted the TT steering rack to a Skoda, do you mean it bolted right up and worked with no coding change required?

Alternately, how did you machine the MK5 steering rack to accept the TT inner tie rods? Does the end of the steering rack female portion need to be shortened? Could this be done freehand with a cutoff wheel on an angle grinder (assuming you could then get it squared off)? Or do you need to remove the rack and jig something up on a stationary cutoff saw? Or am I not understanding what you did?
 

the bruce

Go Kart Champion
Location
land
Car(s)
Golf GTI Mk.V 2008
Bruce, is this the right collared nut for attaching the outer tie rods to the Passat swivels?

WHT000785

Also found

WHT000785A
WHT000785B

Would the B version be the right one to use?

All the same. "B" is the latest revision. VW always only sell the latest one. :thumbsup:
 
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