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The COVID19 SCAMdemic... Economy So Strong That eBay Hard Up For Business

StorableComa

Autocross Champion
Location
SoCal, USA
Car(s)
17 GSW S FWD
American corporations sent the jobs out of the country for increased profits which was partly driven by high corporate taxes. A lot of those companies were bringing jobs back to the US with the reduced corporate taxes.

Pretty difficult to automate landscaping work.
Not really. They already have "Stupid" Mowers that follow stakes in the ground. You can easily map and automate lawnmowers and edgers..
https://www.pcmag.com/picks/the-best-robot-lawn-mowers

Most large landscaping places use in house and have already replaced jobs with machines...
 

StorableComa

Autocross Champion
Location
SoCal, USA
Car(s)
17 GSW S FWD
So you approve of illegal immigrants?
I live in California.. the land of illegal immigrants. I say you're being angry at the wrong party here. The fact they are here doesn't change the fact the companies are still choosing to lay off American workers and pay illegals less so they can make more.

If they couldn't hire illegals, most of these companies would downsize anyhow. Automation is coming for more jobs than people think. They're already building click to code interfaces to reduce the number of educated coders they have to have on the payroll.
 

jimlloyd40

Autocross Champion
Location
Phoenix
Car(s)
2018 SE DSG
Not really. They already have "Stupid" Mowers that follow stakes in the ground. You can easily map and automate lawnmowers and edgers..
https://www.pcmag.com/picks/the-best-robot-lawn-mowers

Most large landscaping places use in house and have already replaced jobs with machines...

You're not familiar with AZ landscaping. Not lot of grass mowing going on. Lots of tree and bush trimming and planting and blowers rounding up debris.
 

jimlloyd40

Autocross Champion
Location
Phoenix
Car(s)
2018 SE DSG
I live in California.. the land of illegal immigrants. I say you're being angry at the wrong party here. The fact they are here doesn't change the fact the companies are still choosing to lay off American workers and pay illegals less so they can make more.

If they couldn't hire illegals, most of these companies would downsize anyhow. Automation is coming for more jobs than people think. They're already building click to code interfaces to reduce the number of educated coders they have to have on the payroll.

I agree about automation and robots. I'm not happy about being old but I don't think I would want to be real young either because the future of jobs is bleak.
 

oddspyke

Autocross Champion
Location
Delaware
Car(s)
2016 GTI, 2018 ZL1
As someone who actually hires people and makes business decisions for a large company, let me dispel a few misconceptions here:
First, lower corporate taxes pretty much never drive hiring; customer demand does. Pay is determined by the labor market. What usually fluctuates is the cost of goods and services.

Second, it sounds counterintuitive, but higher corporate taxes actually drive business investment and hiring. It's because the US tax system taxes profits, not revenue or commerce (like the VAT in Europe). It's more beneficial to take an equity stake and use excess funds to hire and expand your business, which you can then totally avoid taxes on, making the higher rate irrelevant. Your equity stake becomes more valuable and you can later sell it for a profit which you will only pay the favorable capital gains tax rate.

Third, most companies that employ illegal immigrants are small business owners that file as individuals and don't pay the corporate tax rates anyway. Large scale businesses that pay the corporate tax don't mess around with anyone that isn't properly documented, there is too much scrutiny. Illegal immigrants and corporate tax rates don't have a lot to do with each other.
 

jimlloyd40

Autocross Champion
Location
Phoenix
Car(s)
2018 SE DSG
As someone who actually hires people and makes business decisions for a large company, let me dispel a few misconceptions here:
First, lower corporate taxes pretty much never drive hiring; customer demand does. Pay is determined by the labor market. What usually fluctuates is the cost of goods and services.

Second, it sounds counterintuitive, but higher corporate taxes actually drive business investment and hiring. It's because the US tax system taxes profits, not revenue or commerce (like the VAT in Europe). It's more beneficial to take an equity stake and use excess funds to hire and expand your business, which you can then totally avoid taxes on, making the higher rate irrelevant. Your equity stake becomes more valuable and you can later sell it for a profit which you will only pay the favorable capital gains tax rate.

Third, most companies that employ illegal immigrants are small business owners that file as individuals and don't pay the corporate tax rates anyway. Large scale businesses that pay the corporate tax don't mess around with anyone that isn't properly documented, there is too much scrutiny. Illegal immigrants and corporate tax rates don't have a lot to do with each other.

Mostly agree with what you said. One question. Why were corporations bringing jobs back to the US after the corporate tax rates were reduced? There were other tax advantages as to why they were bringing jobs back but the corporate tax rate was the main reason.
 

StorableComa

Autocross Champion
Location
SoCal, USA
Car(s)
17 GSW S FWD
Mostly agree with what you said. One question. Why were corporations bringing jobs back to the US after the corporate tax rates were reduced? There were other tax advantages as to why they were bringing jobs back but the corporate tax rate was the main reason.
A good read if you're interested:
https://www.investopedia.com/articl...s-high-corporate-tax-rates-hurt-americans.asp

From the article:
Worldwide vs. Territorial Tax Systems
Under the Trump Administration's tax reform bill, the corporate tax rate dropped from 35% to 21%. The bill also eliminated taxation on certain forms of foreign-earned income, thereby reducing the tax liability of companies that do business abroad.


The passing of the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act in 2017 eliminated taxation on certain foreign-earned corporate income.
Prior to this, the U.S. government used a worldwide tax system, a system that taxes income regardless of where it's earned. This meant American corporations were taxed by the U.S government on the income earned domestically and abroad. But that's not all. Any company that operated outside the U.S. was also taxed by the countries where they operated as well. This meant many American companies were double-taxed—by the U.S. as well as by the country where they did business. Not only did this double tax put a burden on corporations, but it also put them at a disadvantage compared with foreign competitors that weren't subject to double taxation.


Most developed countries, though, don't use a worldwide tax system. Instead, they use what's called a territorial tax system, which only taxes companies on the profits they earn within a specific country. Under a territorial system, an American company would only pay taxes on income earned in France to that country, and would only give Uncle Sam a cut of the profits it earns at home.

KEY TAKEAWAYS
  • The corporate tax rate dropped from 35% to 21% following the passing of the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act in 2017.
  • Higher corporate profits tend to move jobs and profits overseas.
  • Companies generally spend more rather than save and invest when corporate tax rates are higher.
  • Economists say lower tax rates may result in higher tax revenue for the government because companies are more likely to curb spending.


Edit: A little more to your point:
So why are lower tax rates great for corporations? Economists project that lowering corporate tax rates is a boon for the economy. That's because they would actually increase tax revenue. How? By lower tax rates, corporations could dedicate more resources to taxable, profit-generating activities rather than spending, putting more money back into the government's coffers rather than somewhere else. Jobs also come back to the U.S., employing more people. And more money is spent on innovation, which creates more products and services, putting more money back into the economy.


The Bottom Line
Higher marginal tax rates on U.S. corporations discourage them from earning profits domestically. This, in turn, sends jobs and taxable income overseas. Higher rates give businesses an incentive to spend rather than save and invest for the future, even when the latter may be the more prudent choice. They also waste corporate resources that could be better spent on developing new products and services.
 

oddspyke

Autocross Champion
Location
Delaware
Car(s)
2016 GTI, 2018 ZL1
Mostly agree with what you said. One question. Why were corporations bringing jobs back to the US after the corporate tax rates were reduced? There were other tax advantages as to why they were bringing jobs back but the corporate tax rate was the main reason.
Because they were hiring before the tax rates were reduced. They weren't "bringing jobs back" so much as choosing to invest in the United States again, because the economics made sense. They wouldn't build things here unless it were profitable to do so. That's where much of the tax rate arguments fall apart. Jobs didn't leave the US because the tax on profit was too high, it was because labor cost so much they couldn't turn a profit in the first place; the tax rate was irrelevant. Someone mentioned automation and that was a huge part of it; automation actually created jobs by reducing the labor cost per unit of goods to the point that shipping from overseas was more expensive than making things here.
 

jimlloyd40

Autocross Champion
Location
Phoenix
Car(s)
2018 SE DSG
A good read if you're interested:
https://www.investopedia.com/articl...s-high-corporate-tax-rates-hurt-americans.asp

From the article:
Worldwide vs. Territorial Tax Systems
Under the Trump Administration's tax reform bill, the corporate tax rate dropped from 35% to 21%. The bill also eliminated taxation on certain forms of foreign-earned income, thereby reducing the tax liability of companies that do business abroad.


The passing of the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act in 2017 eliminated taxation on certain foreign-earned corporate income.
Prior to this, the U.S. government used a worldwide tax system, a system that taxes income regardless of where it's earned. This meant American corporations were taxed by the U.S government on the income earned domestically and abroad. But that's not all. Any company that operated outside the U.S. was also taxed by the countries where they operated as well. This meant many American companies were double-taxed—by the U.S. as well as by the country where they did business. Not only did this double tax put a burden on corporations, but it also put them at a disadvantage compared with foreign competitors that weren't subject to double taxation.


Most developed countries, though, don't use a worldwide tax system. Instead, they use what's called a territorial tax system, which only taxes companies on the profits they earn within a specific country. Under a territorial system, an American company would only pay taxes on income earned in France to that country, and would only give Uncle Sam a cut of the profits it earns at home.

KEY TAKEAWAYS
  • The corporate tax rate dropped from 35% to 21% following the passing of the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act in 2017.
  • Higher corporate profits tend to move jobs and profits overseas.
  • Companies generally spend more rather than save and invest when corporate tax rates are higher.
  • Economists say lower tax rates may result in higher tax revenue for the government because companies are more likely to curb spending.


Edit: A little more to your point:
So why are lower tax rates great for corporations? Economists project that lowering corporate tax rates is a boon for the economy. That's because they would actually increase tax revenue. How? By lower tax rates, corporations could dedicate more resources to taxable, profit-generating activities rather than spending, putting more money back into the government's coffers rather than somewhere else. Jobs also come back to the U.S., employing more people. And more money is spent on innovation, which creates more products and services, putting more money back into the economy.


The Bottom Line
Higher marginal tax rates on U.S. corporations discourage them from earning profits domestically. This, in turn, sends jobs and taxable income overseas. Higher rates give businesses an incentive to spend rather than save and invest for the future, even when the latter may be the more prudent choice. They also waste corporate resources that could be better spent on developing new products and services.

Didn't see any double taxation on say Apple. They paid very little US tax yet they are one of the companies bringing back some manufacturing to the US after the reduction in corporate taxes.
 

StorableComa

Autocross Champion
Location
SoCal, USA
Car(s)
17 GSW S FWD
Not to mention, you really need to look at a breakdown the jobs created to get a better idea of if it's good or not. More low income/minimum wage jobs does not = Better economy. You need to look at the jobs that are created and what they're bringing to the table.

At the end of the day, most employees are a deduction that needs to produce more than their cost for a business to make sense. Which is why automation is a double edged sword and people start talking about Mandatory minimal income. Cause once the machines can do the brunt of the work the common laborer isn't required, but we keep on making more people.
 

StorableComa

Autocross Champion
Location
SoCal, USA
Car(s)
17 GSW S FWD

oddspyke

Autocross Champion
Location
Delaware
Car(s)
2016 GTI, 2018 ZL1
Didn't Apple also use the“ tax amnesty" period to bring a bunch of their funds back here?
https://www.fastcompany.com/40509566/the-new-tax-law-gives-apple-plenty-to-look-forward-to-in-2018
You beat me to it!

The tax lowering and job creation were independent of each other. Apple could have brought back profits and used them to build a factory and hire workers at any time with 0 tax burden because they could use those expenses to offset the profits. They used the tax holiday to pay dividends and buy back stock, just like the article says. They just knew the optics were better to have the two events coincide, because then people would conflate the two.
 

jimlloyd40

Autocross Champion
Location
Phoenix
Car(s)
2018 SE DSG
Random Seinfeld joke.

The point was there is nothing you won't apologize for when it comes to Trump.

You're so scared of the Democrats raising taxes you'd rather be the laughing stock of the World.

I haven't apologized once for Trump. I've stated several times that I don't even like him. Where do you get this crap?

The Dems raising taxes won't affect me at all. I'm only thinking of the economy overall.
Laughing stock? You are with all the assumptions you make.
 
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