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Socialized Medicine

The Fed

Old Guys Rule
Location
Florida
How does it work in your country? Do you get all medical care care for free? How about prescription drugs? Long term nursing home care? What's your VAT percentage, and what goods and services are taxed?

I'm thinking the only way we can take care of every American is with a VAT.
 
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wy2sl0

Drag Race Newbie
Location
Ontario
Costs are included in my income tax. All procedures that are required by my doctor (prescribed) are covered. Medication is NOT covered through the government (all of it). I have a drug plan through work which covers I believe 90% of my medical prescriptions and 90% of dental. I also get a set of prescription glasses per year if required.
Costs? Taxes are not really that terrible. I see about 69% of my gross salary, and that includes a pension through work which is 2% of my salary per year (35 years worked gives me 70% retired annual salary of my highest earning 5 years in service).

The wait times? Yeah they aren't great. It could be better. I am young but have had to use the system considerably in the past. It needs improvement, but at least I only have to deal with my illness and not the mental and emotional stress of debt accruing due to being dealt a poor hand. Other people have it much worse than I did.

Ideally the system would penalize those that make decisions to harm themselves and burden our healthcare system (smokers, drinkers, drug users). I have no problem supporting someone who has no control over their diagnosis, however if you decide to take risks for personal pleasure the system should not have to bail you out. (i.e. a heavy smoker getting lung cancer).

We have import taxes but they are minor. 5% I believe? So it is normal HST (13% on all goods anyways) + sometimes 5% duty if I order online.
 
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The Fed

Old Guys Rule
Location
Florida
Costs are included in my income tax. All procedures that are required by my doctor (prescribed) are covered. Medication is NOT covered through the government (all of it). I have a drug plan through work which covers I believe 90% of my medical prescriptions and 90% of dental. I also get a set of prescription glasses per year if required.
Costs? Taxes are not really that terrible. I see about 69% of my gross salary, and that includes a pension through work which is 2% of my salary per year (35 years worked gives me 70% retired annual salary of my highest earning 5 years in service).

The wait times? Yeah they aren't great. It could be better. I am young but have had to use the system considerably in the past. It needs improvement, but at least I only have to deal with my illness and not the mental and emotional stress of debt accruing due to being dealt a poor hand. Other people have it much worse than I did.

Ideally the system would penalize those that make decisions to harm themselves and burden our healthcare system (smokers, drinkers, drug users). I have no problem supporting someone who has no control over their diagnosis, however if you decide to take risks for personal pleasure the system should not have to bail you out. (i.e. a heavy smoker getting lung cancer).

We have import taxes but they are minor. 5% I believe? So it is normal HST (13% on all goods anyways) + sometimes 5% duty if I order online.

Thank you for your very comprehensive reply. If you are retired does your employer benefits for Rx's and dental carry over, or do you need to pay for them yourself? I was wondering what it would cost you if you didn't have employer coverage for them. No long term nursing home care? Do you need to pay HST on services, like the labor at a VW dealer?

Your pension is pretty generous. I'm still under the old federal civil service plan, and I receive 76.25% for 40 years. It's not 2% for every year; you get stiffed in the first few years. That's before the 10% reduction survivor benefits for your wife, if you so choose. And we use high 3. So we're pretty close.
 

Bullet Bob

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
NC
"Your pension is pretty generous. I'm still under the old federal civil service plan, and I receive 76.25% for 40 years. It's not 2% for every year; you get stiffed in the first few years. That's before the 10% reduction survivor benefits for your wife, if you so choose. And we use high 3. So we're pretty close"
______________________________________________________

Yeah, almost 80% of your working income in retirement, what a tragedy. :cool:
 

wy2sl0

Drag Race Newbie
Location
Ontario
Thank you for your very comprehensive reply. If you are retired does your employer benefits for Rx's and dental carry over, or do you need to pay for them yourself? I was wondering what it would cost you if you didn't have employer coverage for them. No long term nursing home care? Do you need to pay HST on services, like the labor at a VW dealer?

Your pension is pretty generous. I'm still under the old federal civil service plan, and I receive 76.25% for 40 years. It's not 2% for every year; you get stiffed in the first few years. That's before the 10% reduction survivor benefits for your wife, if you so choose. And we use high 3. So we're pretty close.

No problem.

After I retire I would have to pick up the tab on the insurance coverage my employer currently pays.
I just went and checked my pay slip, and the employer portion (which I would have to cover after retirement) is as follows, per paycheque (every 2 weeks, so 26 times a year):
Health plan, drug plan (guarantees me my own room at hospital as well): $68.88
Dental: $37.14
Death Benefit: $2.59
Disability: $53.16

Here are the standardized Nursing Home Care rates in my province:

Daily Accommodation Rate Monthly Accommodation Rate Basic room $58.99 $1794 Semi-private room $67.08-71.12 $2040-2163 Private room $77.19-84.247 $2347-2563

My grandfather was a veteran and was in a community center (he was free to come and go as he pleases) that offers food. Despite clearing $5k a month in pension and veteran benefits, I believe the expenses for the community were over $3k alone. It is very expensive.

Also, yes. We pay 13% on basically EVERYTHING.

Hope that helps.
 

italynstylion

Ready to race!
Location
Dallas, TX
Ideally the system would penalize those that make decisions to harm themselves and burden our healthcare system (smokers, drinkers, drug users). I have no problem supporting someone who has no control over their diagnosis, however if you decide to take risks for personal pleasure the system should not have to bail you out. (i.e. a heavy smoker getting lung cancer).

I think that's what is wrong with every plan that's been proposed in the USA. Nearly all citizens seem to be ok with supporting those who are diagnosed with things they couldn't prevent. However, many people (including myself) have a VERY big issue supporting people who've spent years nearly eating, smoking, and drinking themselves to death. Why should I pay for that? I've done the things I need to do to keep my health proper.

The biggest issue in our country is they've put healthcare providers in a VERY bad spot. That spot is somewhere between profit and non-profit. You can't tell them they're allowed to turn a profit and then regulate them to not be able to turn away customers that aren't profitable. That just doesn't make sense. It has to be one or the other; can't be a combination of both.
 

wy2sl0

Drag Race Newbie
Location
Ontario
I think that's what is wrong with every plan that's been proposed in the USA. Nearly all citizens seem to be ok with supporting those who are diagnosed with things they couldn't prevent. However, many people (including myself) have a VERY big issue supporting people who've spent years nearly eating, smoking, and drinking themselves to death. Why should I pay for that? I've done the things I need to do to keep my health proper.

The biggest issue in our country is they've put healthcare providers in a VERY bad spot. That spot is somewhere between profit and non-profit. You can't tell them they're allowed to turn a profit and then regulate them to not be able to turn away customers that aren't profitable. That just doesn't make sense. It has to be one or the other; can't be a combination of both.
Realistically, what kind of first world country should be trying to profit from healthcare? It isn't a luxury, it is an essential service.

I know the counterarguments that are going to be made - why will people work harder towards new treatments? The standard of care will drop as more people will be covered....etc.

Frankly, only those who are truly dedicated to helping people and spending 10 years training to be elite should be the ones taking care of us. They should get compensated well. That doesn't mean it has to be unsustainable.
 

cldlhd

Go Kart Champion
I agree to an extent but there are some people who eat healthy and are still overweight. There is a genetic factor so it might be difficult to come up with a calculation. Obviously smoking is another issue but for decades industry "experts" said smoking was harmless. Where's the line? I'm not a heavy drinker but I drink socially. I but Friday happy hour pretty regularly. Would I be cut off in that scenario? How many drinks per week would be allowed?
 

italynstylion

Ready to race!
Location
Dallas, TX
Realistically, what kind of first world country should be trying to profit from healthcare? It isn't a luxury, it is an essential service.
I 100% agree. That's why I said the two can't possibly coexist. That being said, I think there should be HUGE profit (in the form of awards or something) for people who make medical advances or breakthroughs. We need to keep the pool of intelligent people VERY deep for those tasks.

I agree to an extent but there are some people who eat healthy and are still overweight. There is a genetic factor so it might be difficult to come up with a calculation.
Not true. That's an excuse people like to make. Weight loss is an extremely simple equation. To say otherwise means you deem your body to be a creator of energy which spits in the face of the law of conservation of energy.

Fat tissue is simply an energy store created by the body. By definition, it's a surplus of energy that was not used by the body for daily processes. If the intake of energy (defined as calories) exceeds the amount of energy used; the body stores this energy as fat. Thus, the simple solution is to burn more energy than you take in if you intend to lose weight.

Perfect example of this is my friend Billy. I knew this guy since freshman year and as long as I've known him, he's always been "Big Billy". Dude is 6'5 but he was over 450lbs. Everyone in his family was fat. He made the same "genetics" excuse his entire life. One day a few years after we graduated his grandfather died of a heart attack and it rocked his world. He knew it was only a matter of time till it was his turn. He took complete control of his life and totally turned it around. Dude eats right hits the gym all the time now and is in great shape. It's only now he realizes the only thing he "inherited" was poor eating and exercise habits.

Probably more info than this thread needs but I think it's important. TLDR, I would like everyone to have access to healthcare but we still need a way to ensure the system isn't abused by people. This is always the hard part. :eek:
 

cldlhd

Go Kart Champion
What do you mean by "not profitable" ? Unhealthy people are very profitable for healthcare providers but not for health insurance companies. I'm not demonizing them but insurance companies make profits largely by trying to insure people who won't need their product. A lot of times in the US people confuse insurance providers with healthcare providers. If the healthcare providers are instructed to turn away the very people who most need their services in order to keep down insurance costs then what's the point? Is it a healthcare industry or a make money for the insurance companies industry?
 

cldlhd

Go Kart Champion
I 100% agree. That's why I said the two can't possibly coexist. That being said, I think there should be HUGE profit (in the form of awards or something) for people who make medical advances or breakthroughs. We need to keep the pool of intelligent people VERY deep for those tasks.


Not true. That's an excuse people like to make. Weight loss is an extremely simple equation. To say otherwise means you deem your body to be a creator of energy which spits in the face of the law of conservation of energy.

Fat tissue is simply an energy store created by the body. By definition, it's a surplus of energy that was not used by the body for daily processes. If the intake of energy (defined as calories) exceeds the amount of energy used; the body stores this energy as fat. Thus, the simple solution is to burn more energy than you take in if you intend to lose weight.

Perfect example of this is my friend Billy. I knew this guy since freshman year and as long as I've known him, he's always been "Big Billy". Dude is 6'5 but he was over 450lbs. Everyone in his family was fat. He made the same "genetics" excuse his entire life. One day a few years after we graduated his grandfather died of a heart attack and it rocked his world. He knew it was only a matter of time till it was his turn. He took complete control of his life and totally turned it around. Dude eats right hits the gym all the time now and is in great shape. It's only now he realizes the only thing he "inherited" was poor eating and exercise habits.

Probably more info than this thread needs but I think it's important. TLDR, I would like everyone to have access to healthcare but we still need a way to ensure the system isn't abused by people. This is always the hard part. :eek:

I'm not fat so not defending myself. Different people have different resting metabolisms. That's why as people get older if they eat the same that gain weight. I knew a guy who ate twice as much as anyone I ever knew and never weighed more than 150 lbs and he didn't work out.
 

wy2sl0

Drag Race Newbie
Location
Ontario
I 100% agree. That's why I said the two can't possibly coexist. That being said, I think there should be HUGE profit (in the form of awards or something) for people who make medical advances or breakthroughs. We need to keep the pool of intelligent people VERY deep for those tasks.


Not true. That's an excuse people like to make. Weight loss is an extremely simple equation. To say otherwise means you deem your body to be a creator of energy which spits in the face of the law of conservation of energy.

Fat tissue is simply an energy store created by the body. By definition, it's a surplus of energy that was not used by the body for daily processes. If the intake of energy (defined as calories) exceeds the amount of energy used; the body stores this energy as fat. Thus, the simple solution is to burn more energy than you take in if you intend to lose weight.

Perfect example of this is my friend Billy. I knew this guy since freshman year and as long as I've known him, he's always been "Big Billy". Dude is 6'5 but he was over 450lbs. Everyone in his family was fat. He made the same "genetics" excuse his entire life. One day a few years after we graduated his grandfather died of a heart attack and it rocked his world. He knew it was only a matter of time till it was his turn. He took complete control of his life and totally turned it around. Dude eats right hits the gym all the time now and is in great shape. It's only now he realizes the only thing he "inherited" was poor eating and exercise habits.

Probably more info than this thread needs but I think it's important. TLDR, I would like everyone to have access to healthcare but we still need a way to ensure the system isn't abused by people. This is always the hard part. :eek:

I have friends too that are large, some thin. A healthy weight and eating habits are key to feeling good and minimizing health issues. Weight is completely controlled by the individual. As mentioned above, it really is simple; you can't just become obese, you need to intake calories above and beyond your metabolic rate to gain fat.
Unfortunately it is lack of self control in most cases. Eating poorly is positively reinforced chemically in our body because of how scarce sugar/calories were in the past when we foraged for food. We have simply improved our circumstances in exponentially less time than we have evolved. If we are talking about the U.S., it is an important subject because a large portion of the population is not in an ideal range of BMI; this causes more burden on the healthcare system. It also hurts the coverage costs for everyone.
The same argument can be made for drinking and smoking. I am not an expert and do not know the rules. Here in Canada we don't have it perfect either.
 

PouncingPanzer1

Go Kart Champion
$24.50 gets taken out of each paycheck(Bi-weekly) and I have a $1500 annual deductible. Pretty simple through my work. My folks though are out of pocket(self-employed) and that is NOT cheap.
 

PouncingPanzer1

Go Kart Champion
I agree to an extent but there are some people who eat healthy and are still overweight. There is a genetic factor so it might be difficult to come up with a calculation. Obviously smoking is another issue but for decades industry "experts" said smoking was harmless. Where's the line? I'm not a heavy drinker but I drink socially. I but Friday happy hour pretty regularly. Would I be cut off in that scenario? How many drinks per week would be allowed?
I eat like a horse and have weighed the same for almost 8 years. THere is a lot of genetics to it. I look exactly like my grandpa on my moms side, and she said he was skinny til the day he died. Yay!!! lol. I also drink at least 1 beer 3 days a week. It keeps my soul healthy.
 
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