Review: Audi TT-RS/TTS control arm + spindle

[supertanch]

Everyone knows that the GTI's spindle is probably the weakest part in the car's suspension links. Once the car is lowered the front control arms will drop below level and you starting to lose camber.

Audi TT-S/TT-RS uses basically the same platform as GTI but with alumnium control arms and spindle, the design of which not only reduces the weight but the ability of a lower mounting pointing compared to GTI's spindle provides a leveled control arm on lowered cars. The control arms also widen the front track by about 1.5 inche each side which gives more stable control.

Recently 034 motorsport helped me on this conversion, it took about 2 days as it's the first time they did it as well. They had to experience what are the additonal parts needed for the conversion, it turns out that one will also need the TTS tie-rod assemblies.

The control arm along with the spindled lowered the car about another 1 inch, and I need to raised the front suspension to avoid rubbing.

Front camber is maxed out at 1.8/1.9. This is the max I could achieve without the camber plates.

Parts needed: (034 motorsport helped me ordered all the parts, and they did an excellent job on the installation!)

8J0 407 253 D Housing left
8J0 407 254 D Housing right
8J0 407 151 D Control Arm
8J0 407 365 Ball Joint
8J0 407 366 Ball Joint right
8J0 407 175 Ball Joint locking plate left
8J0 407 176 Ball Joint locking plate right

Tie rod end (both left/right)
inner tie rod
(sorry no part numbers for above)

Machining is needed on the control harm mounting point.


Here's some pics of the suspension parts I took last week (pardon me with the cell phone pics..)









Driving impression:

Normal road: There's no change that I've noticed, the car feels pretty much the same as before.

Track: Went to Laguna Seca last Sunday, and proved that these parts well worth the money.

Turn in is much more crisp compared to before, and the car gave a much more neutral feel than mild understeering. I do have H&R front/rear swaybars with front set to soft and rear set to hard.

Mid corner power puts down much easier and smoother, on turn 6 I need just mild braking then the car can fully utilize the dip to carry more speed. Coming out of Turn 11 to the long straight I was able to put down the power earlier and gained more exit speed.


Also gained one second on my personal best from 1:48.9-1.47.9. Despite the tires are not good and I had a lot of power issues in the day, I'm very satifying with the time.

Unfortunately one of my coilpack was cooked in the third session and ended my day. I'll be going back again this coming Saturday and enjoy the mods more.

Many thanks to 034 motorsport of helping me on this project, and if any GTI owners in bay area wants to do the same mode, I highly recommend them for the parts as well as the installation.

​

 

[lippyjump]

Very cool. Did you get a chance to weigh the Gti assembly and TTRS assembly?
Did you also gain the ability to adjust camber?

 

[supertanch]

^ the weight saving gained was 7lb per side, a total of 14lbs. Definitely noticable on track.
I do get the ability to adjust the camber by loosen the control arm ball joint and slide in and out. But it is not much room for adjusting without the camber plate.

 

[TXBDan]

Awesome! So you used Audi TT inner and outter tie rods? There was some concern over the shorter TT inner tie rod's thread engagement into the GTI steering rack. I guess they didn't see any issues?

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthre...-Modifications-for-Hardcore-Enthusiasts/page8

I'm not sure why the Audi TT inner tie rod thread engagement would be safe for a TT but not for a GTI, though.

 

[supertanch]

^ didnt run into any problem with the TT tie-rods.. Track proven so I dont think there's any issue with those parts bolting on to GTI

 

[TXBDan]

Nice. What wheels and tires are you using? How's the track width and tire poke? Can you take a pic of the tire and fender?

Thanks!

 

[Cbus mkv]

wait so your saying this lowered your front an inch and gave you front camber adjustments :drool:
i wonder if this will be enough to lay my front lip even though im already laying frame aired out.

 

[JRutter]

Please post up your alignment results. I'm really curious what happens with caster since you used the aluminum brackets on the TT arms as opposed to pressing the bushings into the stock brackets. That is what I'm seeing in the pics, right?

 

[supertanch]

Nice. What wheels and tires are you using? How's the track width and tire poke? Can you take a pic of the tire and fender?

Thanks!

Neuspeed RSE07 18x8 ET45, tires are Kuhmo Ecsta XS 245/35/18.

I did roll the fenders before, and actually, there's NO RUB at track.... even myself couldnt believe it..

Will take some more pics of the front to post.

wait so your saying this lowered your front an inch and gave you front camber adjustments :drool:
i wonder if this will be enough to lay my front lip even though im already laying frame aired out.

There's not that much room to play around for camber without the camber plate. If you want more camber still that's needed.

Please post up your alignment results. I'm really curious what happens with caster since you used the aluminum brackets on the TT arms as opposed to pressing the bushings into the stock brackets. That is what I'm seeing in the pics, right?

I dont have the caster specs with me, (left the alignment paper somewhere.. :frown

Yes I used the aluminum brackets directly, but it needs to be machined a bit to fit on GTI. Pretty easy to figure it out, I can try take a closer pic when I prep my car for track this weekend.

 

[JRutter]

I wasn't sure about how the actual pivot point would change, so I went with the old brackets (actually WALK brackets, which are just slightly different). It looked to me like the caster would decrease using the TT brackets and slotting for the front hole. Maybe it is just an optical illusion and the geometry when bolted on is the same or close enough.

 

[bostonaudi]

Nice, saw same benefits with the H2Sport spindles, way better traction coming out of turns, better stability with less bump steer as well. Nice to finally see someone fit the TT spindles.

The TT arms with stock spindles (pivots) will get you more camber, up to -2.7, it goes down as you lower the ball joint mount due to simple geometry.

The TT arms work nice, giving wider track, lower weight, extra camber and factory ride, however for someone who really wants to be precise in dialing in camber and doing competitive track or auto-x, the Passat arms with a good set of camber plates might be a better setup. You do give up some ride quality though. It is difficult to adjust camber on the TT arms to anything beside max or min as they are just slotted plates.

I used a press and swapped out the TT bushings into my GTI mounts, they punch out easily.

 

[supertanch]

Thx Boston, your H2Sport spindle thread motivated me to finally put in the money for this.

Before the mod, despite my car is not that low I'm still losing a lot of static camber which suffers in mid corner a lot, esp with the torque GTI has. Now it gives me much more confident to gas on upon apex, it did seem to help a lot. Also the weight saving is definitely noticeable when going over curbs.

All that aside.. when are my Ecsta XS going to wear out... had 5 events with them already and still no signs of giving up...

 

[Camshaft82]

nice write up.

I was wondering what exactly needed to be machined?

 

[TXBDan]

^the LCA rear mounting bracket. Its different than the GTI bracket. You can pop out the TT bushing and press it into your GTI backet or do what he did.

Supertanch, do you know/remember if the GTI steering rack's threaded holes were threaded all the way out to the mating surface where the inner tie rod interfaces? I'm still trying to figure out Tyrolsport's issue with thread engagement. Since the stock GTI inner tie rod has an unthreaded space near the shoulder, maybe that are isn't threaded in the mating rack. So maybe that would leave the TT inner tie rod short on thread engagement.

 

[JRutter]

I was wondering what exactly needed to be machined?

^the LCA rear mounting bracket. Its different than the GTI bracket. You can pop out the TT bushing and press it into your GTI backet or do what he did.

Is it just one of the holes that needs to be opened up/slotted to match up with the subframe hole, or something else? Just trying to get a specific answer for future seekers.