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Power loss - turbo not building boost as before!

ROH ECHT

K04 PLAY
Location
PDX OR
Car(s)
2007 MKV GTI
Curious about what you are thinking on this as well...OP saying the WMI is mounted just below the MAP, right?
 

Whitedemon

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
Miami, FL
Just to clarify, this problem came into being seemingly after WMI install?
If so, can you post up a diagram of your WMI plumbing/assembly/specs?
1598892597255.png


the nozzle is at the TB pipe right before where the MAP sensor is, the pipe came with a bung to connect the injector. But honestly, I don't think it's an issue with my WMI setup, I did change the TB pipe at the same time I installed the WMI, I went from the OEM one to the one CTS Turbo sells that has both the DV valve relocation and the w/m bung. I've done data logging using VCDS tool and all my numbers are within normal range, A/F ratio, timing knock correction, IAT, lambda values, etc. everything looks good except for boost.
 

GIACUser

Master Wallet Mechanic
Location
SoCal
Just one more question about WM. If you disable the WM does it make any difference in how the car runs?
Timing knock correction with and without WM?
 

Whitedemon

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
Miami, FL
Just one more question about WM. If you disable the WM does it make any difference in how the car runs?
Timing knock correction with and without WM?

sorry for the late reply, have been really busy these past few days.
So...something interesting just happened, I turned off the WM as you said, set the timing back to setting 4(from being at 7)and ran some logs.
car boosted up to 22-23 psi again (not quite where it was originally but better than before at least)
Then set the timing to setting 7 again with WM still off, same results (with more timing knock correction of course)
So does this mean it’s something wrong with my water/meth mix?
I’ll post the logs in a bit
 

Whitedemon

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
Miami, FL
REVO Settings at B8-T4-F7 (NO WMI)
Column1Column2Column3Column4Column5Column6Column7Column8Column9Column10Column11
Group A:'020Group B:'115
Timing RetardationTiming RetardationTiming RetardationTiming RetardationEngine SpeedEngine LoadBoost PressureBoost Pressure
TIMECylinder 1Cylinder 2Cylinder 3Cylinder 4TIME(G28)(specified)(actual)
MarkerSTAMP°KW°KW°KW°KWSTAMP/min%mbarmbar
0.18​
0​
0​
0​
0​
0.05​
1960​
54.1​
1680​
1040​
0.43​
0​
0​
0​
0​
0.31​
2000​
72.9​
1920​
1080​
0.68​
0​
0​
0​
0​
0.56​
2040​
73.7​
1960​
1140​
0.93​
0​
0​
0​
0​
0.81​
2120​
76.7​
2010​
1180​
1.17​
0​
0​
0​
0​
1.06​
2200​
80.5​
2070​
1230​
1.43​
0​
0​
0​
0​
1.3​
2280​
83.5​
2110​
1280​
1.68​
0​
0​
0​
0​
1.55​
2360​
87.2​
2190​
1330​
1.93​
0​
0​
0​
0​
1.8​
2440​
92.5​
2230​
1390​
2.18​
0​
0​
0​
0​
2.05​
2520​
97​
2260​
1460​
2.43​
0​
0​
0​
0​
2.3​
2640​
103.8​
2220​
1520​
2.68​
0​
0​
0​
0​
2.55​
2720​
112.8​
2170​
1620​
2.93​
0​
0​
0​
0​
2.8​
2880​
124.8​
2170​
1760​
3.18​
0​
0​
0​
0​
3.05​
2960​
138.3​
2250​
1950​
3.44​
0​
0​
0​
0​
3.3​
3120​
154.1​
2300​
2110​
3.69​
0​
0​
0​
0​
3.57​
3280​
162.4​
2410​
2210​
3.94​
0​
0​
0​
0​
3.82​
3440​
169.2​
2480​
2290​
4.19​
0​
0​
0​
-2.3​
4.07​
3560​
177.4​
2530​
2400​
4.44​
0​
0​
0​
-2.3​
4.32​
3720​
185.7​
2540​
2460​
4.7​
0​
0​
0​
-2.3​
4.57​
3880​
191​
2540​
2490​
4.94​
0​
0​
0​
-2.3​
4.82​
4040​
191.7​
2540​
2500​
5.19​
0​
0​
0​
-2.3​
5.07​
4200​
191.7​
2540​
2500​
5.44​
0​
0​
0​
-2.3​
5.32​
4360​
191.7​
2550​
2500​
5.69​
0​
0​
0​
-2.3​
5.57​
4520​
191.7​
2540​
2480​
5.94​
0​
0​
0​
-2.3​
5.82​
4720​
191.7​
2540​
2490​
6.19​
0​
0​
0​
-2.3​
6.07​
4880​
191.7​
2530​
2500​
6.46​
0​
0​
0​
-1.5​
6.32​
5040​
191.7​
2520​
2520​
6.71​
0​
0​
0​
-1.5​
6.58​
5160​
191.7​
2500​
2540​
6.96​
0​
0​
0​
-1.5​
6.83​
5320​
191.7​
2490​
2540​
7.21​
0​
0​
0​
-1.5​
7.08​
5440​
191.7​
2470​
2460​
7.46​
0​
0​
0​
-0.8​
7.33​
5600​
191.7​
2460​
2390​
7.71​
0​
0​
0​
-0.8​
7.59​
5720​
191.7​
2440​
2410​
7.96​
0​
0​
0​
-0.8​
7.83​
5840​
191.7​
2430​
2450​
8.21​
0​
0​
0​
-0.8​
8.08​
5960​
191.7​
2410​
2450​
8.46​
0​
0​
0​
-0.8​
8.33​
6080​
191.7​
1580​
2410​
8.71​
0​
0​
0​
0​
8.59​
6040​
47.4​
660​
2040​
8.96​
0​
0​
0​
0​
8.84​
6040​
22.6​
370​
1400​
9.21​
0​
0​
0​
0​
9.08​
6000​
16.5​
330​
1260​
9.49​
0​
0​
0​
0​
9.33​
5960​
17.3​
330​
1190​

Boost (Actual vs Specified)
1599615929264.png
 

Attachments

  • 1599615610024.png
    1599615610024.png
    34.4 KB · Views: 21
Last edited:

Whitedemon

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
Miami, FL
REVO Settings at B8-T7-F7 (NO WMI)
Column1Column2Column3Column4Column5Column6Column7Column8Column9Column10Column11Column12Column13
Group A:'020Group B:'115Group C:Not Running
Timing RetardationTiming RetardationTiming RetardationTiming RetardationEngine SpeedEngine LoadBoost PressureBoost Pressure
TIMECylinder 1Cylinder 2Cylinder 3Cylinder 4TIME(G28)(specified)(actual)TIME
MarkerSTAMP°KW°KW°KW°KWSTAMP/min%mbarmbarSTAMP
0.24​
0​
0​
0​
0​
0.11​
2160​
76.7​
2120​
1200​
0.48​
0​
0​
0​
0​
0.36​
2240​
81.2​
2150​
1250​
0.74​
0​
0​
0​
0​
0.61​
2320​
84.2​
2160​
1300​
0.98​
0​
0​
0​
0​
0.86​
2400​
88.7​
2190​
1350​
1.23​
0​
0​
0​
0​
1.11​
2480​
93.2​
2200​
1410​
1.49​
0​
0​
0​
0​
1.36​
2600​
97.7​
2220​
1470​
1.74​
0​
0​
0​
0​
1.61​
2680​
104.5​
2150​
1530​
1.99​
0​
0​
-3​
-3​
1.86​
2800​
113.5​
2190​
1640​
2.23​
0​
0​
-3​
-3​
2.11​
2920​
125.6​
2210​
1790​
2.49​
0​
-3​
-3​
-3​
2.36​
3080​
139.8​
2250​
1970​
2.74​
0​
-3​
-3​
-3​
2.61​
3200​
153.4​
2300​
2130​
2.99​
0​
-3​
-3​
-3​
2.86​
3360​
160.2​
2390​
2200​
3.24​
0​
-3​
-3​
-3​
3.11​
3520​
166.9​
2410​
2290​
3.48​
0​
-3​
-3​
-3​
3.36​
3680​
175.9​
2540​
2370​
3.75​
0​
-3​
-3​
-3​
3.61​
3880​
182.7​
2540​
2420​
4​
0​
-3​
-3​
-3​
3.87​
4040​
185.7​
2540​
2450​
4.26​
0​
-3​
-3​
-3​
4.12​
4200​
188​
2540​
2460​
4.5​
0​
-3​
-3​
-3​
4.38​
4360​
188​
2540​
2480​
4.75​
-3​
-3​
-2.3​
-2.3​
4.63​
4520​
188.7​
2540​
2480​
5​
0​
-3​
0​
0​
4.87​
4720​
190.2​
2540​
2490​
5.25​
0​
-3​
0​
0​
5.13​
4880​
191.7​
2540​
2480​
5.5​
0​
-3​
0​
0​
5.38​
5040​
191.7​
2540​
2500​
5.75​
0​
-3​
0​
0​
5.62​
5200​
191.7​
2520​
2520​
6​
0​
-3​
0​
0​
5.87​
5320​
191.7​
2510​
2520​
6.25​
0​
-3​
0​
0​
6.13​
5520​
191.7​
2480​
2460​
6.5​
0​
-2.3​
0​
0​
6.37​
5640​
191.7​
2380​
2430​
6.76​
0​
-2.3​
0​
0​
6.62​
5760​
191.7​
2280​
2370​
7.01​
0​
-2.3​
0​
0​
6.89​
5960​
185.7​
2200​
2270​
7.27​
0​
-2.3​
0​
0​
7.14​
6040​
175.9​
2100​
2140​
7.52​
0​
-1.5​
0​
0​
7.4​
6160​
166.9​
2110​
2040​
7.77​
0​
-1.5​
0​
0​
7.64​
6320​
164.7​
2160​
2020​

Boost (Actual vs Specified)
1599615788546.png
 

Attachments

  • 1599615679596.png
    1599615679596.png
    34.4 KB · Views: 20
Last edited:

Whitedemon

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
Miami, FL
REVO Settings at B8-T7-F7 (WMI ON)
Column1Column2Column3Column4Column5Column6Column7Column8Column9Column10Column11Column12Column13
Group A:'020Group B:'115Group C:Not Running
Timing RetardationTiming RetardationTiming RetardationTiming RetardationEngine SpeedEngine LoadBoost PressureBoost Pressure
TIMECylinder 1Cylinder 2Cylinder 3Cylinder 4TIME(G28)(specified)(actual)TIME
MarkerSTAMP°KW°KW°KW°KWSTAMP/min%mbarmbarSTAMP
0.07​
0​
0​
0​
0​
0.19​
2240​
80.5​
2130​
1270​
0.32​
0​
0​
0​
0​
0.44​
2320​
85.7​
2150​
1310​
0.57​
0​
0​
0​
0​
0.69​
2440​
89.5​
2160​
1370​
0.82​
0​
0​
0​
0​
0.94​
2520​
94​
2170​
1420​
1.07​
0​
0​
0​
0​
1.18​
2600​
98.5​
2200​
1480​
1.32​
0​
0​
0​
0​
1.44​
2720​
106.8​
2150​
1550​
1.57​
-3​
0​
-3​
-3​
1.69​
2840​
115.8​
2200​
1660​
1.82​
-3​
0​
-3​
-3​
1.94​
2960​
129.3​
2230​
1840​
2.07​
-3​
0​
-3​
-3​
2.19​
3080​
145.9​
2280​
2050​
2.31​
-3​
0​
-3​
-3​
2.44​
3240​
155.6​
2320​
2140​
2.57​
-3​
0​
-3​
-3​
2.69​
3440​
161.7​
2380​
2220​
2.81​
-3​
0​
-3​
-3​
2.95​
3600​
167.7​
2420​
2260​
3.08​
-3​
0​
-3​
-3​
3.2​
3720​
172.2​
2480​
2310​
3.33​
-3​
0​
-3​
-3​
3.46​
3880​
179.7​
2540​
2380​
3.58​
-3​
0​
-3​
-3​
3.7​
4080​
185.7​
2540​
2440​
3.83​
-3​
0​
-3​
-3​
3.96​
4240​
188.7​
2550​
2460​
4.08​
-3​
0​
-3​
-3​
4.2​
4440​
189.5​
2540​
2470​
4.33​
-3​
0​
-3​
-3​
4.46​
4640​
190.2​
2540​
2470​
4.59​
0​
0​
0​
0​
4.7​
4840​
191.7​
2530​
2480​
4.83​
0​
0​
0​
0​
4.96​
5000​
191.7​
2530​
2490​
5.08​
0​
0​
0​
0​
5.21​
5120​
191.7​
2530​
2490​
5.33​
0​
0​
0​
0​
5.45​
5240​
191.7​
2520​
2500​
5.58​
0​
0​
0​
0​
5.7​
5440​
191.7​
2500​
2470​
5.83​
0​
0​
0​
0​
5.97​
5560​
191.7​
2480​
2450​
6.1​
0​
0​
0​
0​
6.22​
5720​
191.7​
2450​
2440​
6.35​
0​
0​
0​
0​
6.47​
5880​
191.7​
2430​
2430​
6.6​
0​
0​
0​
0​
6.72​
6000​
191.7​
2410​
2390​
6.85​
0​
0​
0​
0​
6.97​
6160​
191.7​
2400​
2360​
7.1​
0​
0​
0​
0​
7.22​
6280​
191.7​
2390​
2350​
7.34​
0​
0​
0​
0​
7.47​
6440​
191.7​
2380​
2330​
7.59​
0​
0​
0​
0​
7.72​
6520​
191.7​
1820​
2320​
8.37​
0​
0​
0​
0​
8.24​
6520​
25.6​
420​
1460​
8.61​
0​
0​
0​
0​
8.49​
6440​
16.5​
330​
1280​
8.86​
0​
0​
0​
0​
8.74​
6400​
17.3​
330​
1210​
9.11​
0​
0​
0​
0​
8.99​
6360​
17.3​
330​
1190​
9.36​
0​
0​
0​
0​
9.24​
5720​
18​
330​
1150​
9.61​
0​
0​
0​
0​
9.49​
5160​
18​
340​
1140​
9.86​
0​
0​
0​
0​
9.74​
4640​
16.5​
330​
1110​
10.11​
0​
0​
0​
0​
9.99​
4120​
17.3​
330​
1100​
10.36​
0​
0​
0​
0​
10.24​
3680​
17.3​
340​
1100​
10.61​
0​
0​
0​
0​
10.49​
3200​
16.5​
340​
1090​
10.87​
0​
0​
0​
0​
10.73​
2800​
16.5​
330​
1090​
11.11​
0​
0​
0​
0​
10.99​
2360​
16.5​
320​
1070​
11.36​
0​
0​
0​
0​
11.24​
1960​
16.5​
300​
1050​
11.61​
0​
0​
0​
0​
11.49​
1600​
16.5​
290​
1070​
11.88​
0​
0​
0​
0​
11.74​
1360​
16.5​
350​
1040​

1599615860961.png
 
Last edited:

Whitedemon

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
Miami, FL
Even though in the logs both look pretty similar, for some reason, with WMI on, it takes longer to reach peak boost, I have to go WOT to really be able to hit 22.3 psi (past 4500 RPM).
It's on the low RPMs where you feel the difference.

ALSO, after that first WOT run with WMI on, it was like the ECU detected something wrong and brought the boost down, you can see there I was still able to get to get to 1500 mbar (~21.7 psi), after that I couldn't get past 19 psi.
 
Last edited:

GIACUser

Master Wallet Mechanic
Location
SoCal
Couple more questions and a comment. Comment - based on the plumbing diagram (from the manual), I am assuming your actual plumbing mirrors that which means that part should be ok.
Questions
1. What size jet are you spraying?
2. I tried to look up the config and placement of jet on pipe you are using. Does it spray right before (very close and opposite) the MAP sensor?
3. When you installed your WMI, did you go through any procedure to dial it in?

Looking at your T7 log I am concerned you have not dialed it in. Looks like not enough spray midrange and my guess is that you are over spraying up top which will decrease power but give you zero knock.

4. This Revo tune with the T7 setting requires what octane fuel? What octane fuel do you have in tank? What are you using for WM mix?
 
Last edited:

Whitedemon

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
Miami, FL
Couple more questions and a comment. Comment - based on the plumbing diagram (from the manual), I am assuming your actual plumbing mirrors that which means that part should be ok.

correct, I have it exactly as the diagram shows, WM injector connected at the TB pipe, as AEM suggested.
Questions
1. What size jet are you spraying?
I'm using the medium nozzle which is 500 cc/min, kit came with 3 different sized jets: small(250 cc/min), medium(500 cc/min), large(1000 cc/min)
2. I tried to look up the config and placement of jet on pipe you are using. Does it spray right before (very close and opposite) the MAP sensor?

So here's a photo of my TB pipe, yes, as you can see w/m bung comes before the MAP sensor, and on the opposite side.
1599674930035.png



3. When you installed your WMI, did you go through any procedure to dial it in?

Looking at your T7 log I am concerned you have not dialed it in. Looks like not enough spray midrange and my guess is that you are over spraying up top which will decrease power but give you zero knock.

The kit comes with a progressive spray controller, two dials, one is for you to set it at what boost number you want it to start spraying and the other is for where you want it to spray full. I have changed it a couple of times but makes no difference, normally I would have it set to start spraying at 4 psi, full spray at 15 psi.

4. This Revo tune with the T7 setting requires what octane fuel? What octane fuel do you have in tank? What are you using for WM mix?

The Revo map I have is for 93 oct, and that's the fuel I've been using
All I did was increase the timing using the Revo SPS switch, before WMI I had my settings at B8 T4 F7, and increased timing to T7 since I thought that was all I had to do once I installed WMI, obviously I was constantly datalogging while in the process.
 

GIACUser

Master Wallet Mechanic
Location
SoCal
What are you using for WMI? For example I used 50% Methanol / 50% distilled water by volume. Methanol I used was VPRacing M1. '
 

GIACUser

Master Wallet Mechanic
Location
SoCal
I can safely say that you need to dial in your WMI and doing so will definitely improve your overall performance with the T7 setting. Since you are running a 93 tune with 93 in the tank you won't need a lot of WM to allow you to run the advanced timing. 500cc is about what I used on my K04 setup to run a 100oct tune with only 91oct in my tank with zero timing loss. (336whp/335ftlb)
 
Last edited:

GIACUser

Master Wallet Mechanic
Location
SoCal
One more question (may have a couple more before I give you my full set of recommendations) - What gear were you in when running WM on with T7?
 

Whitedemon

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
Miami, FL
What are you using for WMI? For example I used 50% Methanol / 50% distilled water by volume. Methanol I used was VPRacing M1. '

I was making my own 50/50 mix by following this guy on YouTube:

I was mixing Peak -20 windshield washer fluid with Heet, same way as he does it in the video.
 

Whitedemon

Passed Driver's Ed
Location
Miami, FL
I can safely say that you need to dial in your WMI and doing so will definitely improve your overall performance with the T7 setting. Since you are running a 93 tune with 93 in the tank you won't need a lot of WM to allow you to run the advanced timing. 500cc is about what I used on my K04 setup to run a 100oct tune with only 91oct in my tank with zero timing loss. (336whp/335ftlb)

When you say “dial in your WMI” what exactly do you mean by that? sorry I’m pretty much a noob to the WMI, this was my first time installing one.
 
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