POLE - Measles and vaccinations - read thread for pole.

[Buffgli]

Maybe not for not getting vaccinated, but certainly if someone who is not vaccinated infects someone else who is vaccinated and kills them.







Again, the people not choosing to vaccinate are putting those who do lives' in danger. It is irresponsible. You want to be a part of society, you must adhere to societal rules. Someone who has AIDS can't just recklessly bang anyone with no protection and not informing then. Same principle applies here.

Well, if someone is vaccinated, their immunity through the production of antibodies/memory cells would effectively stop any chance of becoming infected. That is unless the disease form has a mutated strain, which doesn't leave the person protected against new "X" organism. Perfect case in point is why there is a new flu shot every year, as the virus continuity mutates "creating" new strains to create super bugs, in which case would still more than likely leave you susceptible even if you did get the flu shot. Its a crap shoot when designing those shots, and this year is a perfect example, with less than 25% coverage across the board for the types of viruses floating around this year. (Flu shot is a combination of the 20-25 most expected influenza A, B viruses for said year).



And the AIDS thing is really completely different, as that it is spread through the direct touching and spreading of bodily fluids (blood, semen, vaginal secretions), where measles is spread through respiratory sections and coughing. It would be like legally prosecuting someone for giving you the common cold, where as AIDS more or less "stabbing" someone with the disease, in layman terms

 

[AM407]

Well, if someone is vaccinated, their immunity through the production of antibodies/memory cells would effectively stop any chance of becoming infected. That is unless the disease form has a mutated strain, which doesn't leave the person protected against new "X" organism. Perfect case in point is why there is a new flu shot every year, as the virus continuity mutates "creating" new strains to create super bugs, in which case would still more than likely leave you susceptible even if you did get the flu shot. Its a crap shoot when designing those shots, and this year is a perfect example, with less than 25% coverage across the board for the types of viruses floating around this year. (Flu shot is a combination of the 20-25 most expected influenza A, B viruses for said year).

Fuck no, it doesn't work that way. Read up on herd immunity.

Christ almighty.

 

[Merkle]

I don't think they should be forced, one should be free to choose what they put in their bodies.

However, any educated person can see that it's in their best interest to get vaccinated.

I love people that deny they even work, like, motherfucker, do you even Google?

 

[Buffgli]

Fuck no, it doesn't work that way. Read up on herd immunity.

Christ almighty.

Have you ever taken a microbiology, immunology, pathophysiology or any other defining medical class on the transmission of disease? Apparently you haven't because

A) you're referencing Wikipedia, not a website such as the CDC or WHO, whom live their lives studying such topics.

B) I was discussing how mk6medic was said a nonvaccinated person could infect and kill a vaccinated person, which is completely different to the topic of herd immunity.

SO, read bro.

 

[AM407]

I don't think they should be forced, one should be free to choose what they put in their bodies.

However, any educated person can see that it's in their best interest to get vaccinated.

I love people that deny they even work, like, motherfucker, do you even Google?

Right, but the problem is that if enough people choose not to vaccinate, then it fucks over all the rest of us.

If I get vaccinated, it's not a magic bullet that means I am 100% protected - vaccination doesn't work that way, and nobody who is informed believes that it does.

The benefit comes when everybody (or at least 90%) gets vaccinated. The disease can't get a foothold, and protection for everybody rises.

But if enough people opt out, the whole thing falls apart. The disease spreads, and even people who have been vaccinated are now at risk (which does not mean that vaccines don't work.)

So if you choose not to vaccinate, you're basically saying a big "Fuck You!" to the rest of us, and putting our health in danger, too.

So I think that making vaccination mandatory is something we might have to consider. I agree it's too bad - you'd think people would be smart enough and considerate enough to do it of their own free will, but that's obviously not the case. Why should my health and the health of my family be put in jeopardy by some anti-science wingnut?

 

[mk6medic]

You can't use the flu as an excuse if I can't use AIDS as a reason.

Pretty ridiculous that there are people who still think vaccines are bad. Wow. Even the group Autism Speaks says to vaccinate your children.

But I guess you would know more than them.

Ugh. It is like talking to a wall.

 

[Buffgli]

Right, but the problem is that if enough people choose not to vaccinate, then it fucks over all the rest of us.

If I get vaccinated, it's not a magic bullet that means I am 100% protected - vaccination doesn't work that way, and nobody who is informed believes that it does.

The benefit comes when everybody (or at least 90%) gets vaccinated. The disease can't get a foothold, and protection for everybody rises.

But if enough people opt out, the whole thing falls apart. The disease spreads, and even people who have been vaccinated are now at risk (which does not mean that vaccines don't work.)

So if you choose not to vaccinate, you're basically saying a big "Fuck You!" to the rest of us, and putting our health in danger, too.

So I think that making vaccination mandatory is something we might have to consider. I agree it's too bad - you'd think people would be smart enough and considerate enough to do it of their own free will, but that's obviously not the case. Why should my health and the health of my family be put in jeopardy by some anti-science wingnut?

There are states who have a mandatory vaccination. I believe its Arkansas or Alabama who has a vaccination rate of nearly 100%.

 

[jay745]

 

[mk6medic]

The American Academy of Pediatrics, the CDC, the World Health Organization, and the Institute of Medicine all agree that there's probably no relationship between autism and vaccines.

But I guess Jenny McCarthy knows better than them. Wherever a disease happens, people look for something to blame for the cause. It is the society in which we live. It is sad because information like vaccines are bad are ridiculously dangerous. This is evident because we are having a discussion about MEASLES making a comeback when it was such an afterthought that no one even knows what the hell it is.

Measles. Fucking measles. In 2015. This is just insane.

 

[Merkle]

Right, but the problem is that if enough people choose not to vaccinate, then it fucks over all the rest of us.

If I get vaccinated, it's not a magic bullet that means I am 100% protected - vaccination doesn't work that way, and nobody who is informed believes that it does.

The benefit comes when everybody (or at least 90%) gets vaccinated. The disease can't get a foothold, and protection for everybody rises.

But if enough people opt out, the whole thing falls apart. The disease spreads, and even people who have been vaccinated are now at risk (which does not mean that vaccines don't work.)

So if you choose not to vaccinate, you're basically saying a big "Fuck You!" to the rest of us, and putting our health in danger, too.

So I think that making vaccination mandatory is something we might have to consider. I agree it's too bad - you'd think people would be smart enough and considerate enough to do it of their own free will, but that's obviously not the case. Why should my health and the health of my family be put in jeopardy by some anti-science wingnut?

Bingo

The key is to educate people.

 

[Buffgli]

You can't use the flu as an excuse if I can't use AIDS as a reason.

Pretty ridiculous that there are people who still think vaccines are bad. Wow. Even the group Autism Speaks says to vaccinate your children.

But I guess you would know more than them.

Ugh. It is like talking to a wall.

AIDS is completely different... direct contact through the knowingly touching of another individual with your blood etc (AIDS) vs airborne transmission (flu, measles, rhinitis) that can travel and live outside the body for a longer period of time.

Preventable disease that someone can recover from (measles and flu) vs. debilitating disease that destroys your CD4 t-cells effectively causing an immune system melt down, with guaranteed inevitable death as a result of secondary diseases caused by the immune system destruction (AIDS).

I don't mean to bash but it really is something completely different. I understand what you are saying though, as all of this is really completely preventable by just getting to vaccine. And if the Autism Speaks says to get it, then the benefits must outweigh the potential negatives.

I have a cousin who's autistic, but up until a certain age he was on a normal mental progression until receiving a group of vaccines around 2 years old. After that he trailed off significantly and is about 3 -4 years behind but I wouldn't trade him for the world.

Anyways, the theme should be GET vaccinated.

 

[Buffgli]

Bingo

The key is to educate people.

The biggest key to preventing anything is educating the masses. Couldn't agree more

 

[WAP]

Why should my health and the health of my family be put in jeopardy by some anti-science wingnut?

Bingo. Your right to be a stupid fucking douchebag dipshit moron ends at my right to protect myself and my family from preventable horrible diseases. And that's why vaccinations should be mandatory. If child seats are mandatory to protect your child, then vaccinations should be, too.

AIDS is completely different... direct contact through the knowingly touching of another individual with your blood etc (AIDS) vs airborne transmission (flu, measles, rhinitis) that can travel and live outside the body for a longer period of time.

Preventable disease that someone can recover from (measles and flu) vs. debilitating disease that destroys your CD4 t-cells effectively causing an immune system melt down, with guaranteed inevitable death as a result of secondary diseases caused by the immune system destruction (AIDS).

I don't mean to bash but it really is something completely different. I understand what you are saying though, as all of this is really completely preventable by just getting to vaccine. And if the Autism Speaks says to get it, then the benefits must outweigh the potential negatives.

I have a cousin who's autistic, but up until a certain age he was on a normal mental progression until receiving a group of vaccines around 2 years old. After that he trailed off significantly and is about 3 -4 years behind but I wouldn't trade him for the world.

Anyways, the theme should be GET vaccinated.

I'm sorry but the bolded statement is totally irrelevant. It sounds like you're some sort of medical professional or otherwise in the field so you should understand that correlation =/= causation. I'm sorry for your cousin but you have zero evidence that his vaccinations affected his mental development and to suggest otherwise just feeds into the Jenny McCarthy/Michelle Bachman-following nutjobs "logic" about vaccines and autism.

 

[KYGTIGuy]

Pretending to value opinions like Jays and the guy with 2 posts is also a problem

They are ignoramuses, let's call them out.

 

[Buffgli]

Bingo. Your right to be a stupid fucking douchebag dipshit moron ends at my right to protect myself and my family from preventable horrible diseases. And that's why vaccinations should be mandatory. If child seats are mandatory to protect your child, then vaccinations should be, too.







I'm sorry but the bolded statement is totally irrelevant. It sounds like you're some sort of medical professional or otherwise in the field so you should understand that correlation =/= causation. I'm sorry for your cousin but you have zero evidence that his vaccinations affected his mental development and to suggest otherwise just feeds into the Jenny McCarthy/Michelle Bachman-following nutjobs "logic" about vaccines and autism.

I realize that and I'm not saying either way that it the vaccine was/wasn't the root cause. We don't know and will never know what caused it. All I know is that there was an increased rate of autism noticed in the early 90s that some said could have been attributed to receiving some vaccines/shots together, but no sufficient evidence was discovered in either direction iirc.