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PC Building

torga

Autocross Champion
Location
Seattle
Car(s)
'11 GTI
@IanCH

I may have found something interesting. HWInfo is reading my memory timing as much higher than it's supposed to be, and I know for a fact it's been read accurately in the past. It should read 16-19-19-36, but it's reading as 26-25-25-58. Memory speed is reading normally.
I am not sure that I'm stringing together the right combination of words to get anything significant from Google, as my searches haven't returned anything relevant.

Edit: Woah, and my CAS Latency is reading 26. It's supposed to be 16. That's a huge difference.

Edit2: XMP Profile was switched off, but memory frequency was uptuned to its advertised 3600MHz. When the BIOS resets and turns off XMP, it usually defaults frequency to 2133MHz or so. Maybe this could have been an issue. It's finally something that I've found. Gonna pause troubleshooting to just use my computer normally and try to catch any repeat behaviors. Renabled XMP, and timings are back to normal.
 
Last edited:

GertieGTI

Ready to race!
Location
CA
Do you have a crappy video card you can test with? To eliminate the onboard graphics as the cause, your best bet would be to disable the onboard graphics in the bios after installing. I agree that for now your cooling and psu are not the issue
No I don't have any discrete graphic card or know anyone who would. The family member I got the CPU, mobo, and RAM from used a discrete graphics card and never used the on board integrated intel graphics. If I hit go in Furmark I can get it to instantly crash.
 

IanCH

Autocross Champion
Location
MA
Car(s)
'20 GTI
No I don't have any discrete graphic card or know anyone who would. The family member I got the CPU, mobo, and RAM from used a discrete graphics card and never used the on board integrated intel graphics. If I hit go in Furmark I can get it to instantly crash.
So, as far as troubleshooting this issue, you're likely going to hit a dead end resulting from the inability to swap out parts (old platform)

Your least expensive fix is to try out a $50 low profile GPU and see if that resolves the crashes. The I/O isnt super good on these but I assume you have figured out how to handle that with only 1 hdmi on the current motherboard.

The chapest cards out there right now with "good" port arrangement are the workstation quadro 620

Apparently the RX 580 that I have sitting in a closet at home is worth over $500... gotta do something about that.
 

IanCH

Autocross Champion
Location
MA
Car(s)
'20 GTI
@IanCH

I may have found something interesting. HWInfo is reading my memory timing as much higher than it's supposed to be, and I know for a fact it's been read accurately in the past. It should read 16-19-19-36, but it's reading as 26-25-25-58. Memory speed is reading normally.
I am not sure that I'm stringing together the right combination of words to get anything significant from Google, as my searches haven't returned anything relevant.

Edit: Woah, and my CAS Latency is reading 26. It's supposed to be 16. That's a huge difference.

Edit2: XMP Profile was switched off, but memory frequency was uptuned to its advertised 3600MHz. When the BIOS resets and turns off XMP, it usually defaults frequency to 2133MHz or so. Maybe this could have been an issue. It's finally something that I've found. Gonna pause troubleshooting to just use my computer normally and try to catch any repeat behaviors. Renabled XMP, and timings are back to normal.
So, just a quick primer here because there is a lot of depth. (specific to AMD ryzen here)

  1. XMP is not a good feature to enable, it is a marketing feature that was created to allow RAM manufacturers to sell overclocked binned kits for more money. XMP has the ability to raise alternate voltages, and set subtimings, in a sub-optimal or even harmful way to achieve the marketed 4 ram timings, DRAM voltage, and frequency. If you have the knowledge or are willing to watch/read for a little to understand the settings, then it is better to do all ram settings yourself.
  2. You should be targeting matching your fclk to your ram (3200mhz ram = 1600mhz fclk )
  3. You do not "need" better than 3200mhz CL16 with matching fclk in anything except benchmarks. I'm an overclocking nerd, so I have a 4x8 dual matched kit running 3600 cl14 but its really just because I care about that stuff - not "needed"!
And yeah, if you just force frequency without setting the timings the motherboard will select some craaazy high timings to get it to run at that low default voltage. Do you have the part number of your RAM kit? I can probably help steer you to some settings.
 

torga

Autocross Champion
Location
Seattle
Car(s)
'11 GTI
So, just a quick primer here because there is a lot of depth. (specific to AMD ryzen here)

  1. XMP is not a good feature to enable, it is a marketing feature that was created to allow RAM manufacturers to sell overclocked binned kits for more money. XMP has the ability to raise alternate voltages, and set subtimings, in a sub-optimal or even harmful way to achieve the marketed 4 ram timings, DRAM voltage, and frequency. If you have the knowledge or are willing to watch/read for a little to understand the settings, then it is better to do all ram settings yourself.
  2. You should be targeting matching your fclk to your ram (3200mhz ram = 1600mhz fclk )
  3. You do not "need" better than 3200mhz CL16 with matching fclk in anything except benchmarks. I'm an overclocking nerd, so I have a 4x8 dual matched kit running 3600 cl14 but its really just because I care about that stuff - not "needed"!
And yeah, if you just force frequency without setting the timings the motherboard will select some craaazy high timings to get it to run at that low default voltage. Do you have the part number of your RAM kit? I can probably help steer you to some settings.

Thanks, man. I've got some G.Skill Trident Z sticks, P/N is F4-3600C16D-32GTZNC. Installed them a little over two years ago. How would I control the timings and other settings without enabling XMP? Enabling XMP seems to just click the timings in place (I still have to manually change frequency, though).
 

IanCH

Autocross Champion
Location
MA
Car(s)
'20 GTI
Thanks, man. I've got some G.Skill Trident Z sticks, P/N is F4-3600C16D-32GTZNC. Installed them a little over two years ago. How would I control the timings and other settings without enabling XMP? Enabling XMP seems to just click the timings in place (I still have to manually change frequency, though).
So this ram is Hynix IC's based on my google-fu - meaning you're unlikely to get any amazing clocks and timings out of it.

For fun, I would set it to:
3466mhz
1733 fclk
1.35v
1.05v vsoc
16-16-16-36
1T timing
disable geardown

Doubt you will see a difference in practice, it may be more stable.

Here is the defacto DDR4 ram overclocking bible. https://github.com/integralfx/MemTestHelper/blob/oc-guide/DDR4 OC Guide.md

if you want to save time/investment I would suggest googling your motherboard for ram overlcocking video to understand where to access these settings in the BIOS. I have only used gigabyte and (prmarily) Asus bioses on Ryzen.
 

torga

Autocross Champion
Location
Seattle
Car(s)
'11 GTI
Wow man, thank you!! Gonna try these settings out, but not before I do some reading to learn at least a little bit about why they matter.
 

GertieGTI

Ready to race!
Location
CA
So, as far as troubleshooting this issue, you're likely going to hit a dead end resulting from the inability to swap out parts (old platform)

Your least expensive fix is to try out a $50 low profile GPU and see if that resolves the crashes. The I/O isnt super good on these but I assume you have figured out how to handle that with only 1 hdmi on the current motherboard.

The chapest cards out there right now with "good" port arrangement are the workstation quadro 620

Apparently the RX 580 that I have sitting in a closet at home is worth over $500... gotta do something about that.
Ughhh yeah I may have to do that. My family member just loaned me the NVME SSD they used with this configuration previously. I did a fresh install of Windows 10 on it and got it to crash similarly just panning around in Google Maps.

I only have 2 fan pins on this mobo, one for CPU and one for CASE. I got a molex to PWM adapter to hook the AIO pump directly to the PSU thinking I was drawings too many amps on the CPU or case fan header. I had the CPU fan set to 100% for the AIO pump previously. This still has not worked.

I'm going to put both monitors back down to 1K 1080p instead of 4k and see if that helps. Nvidia GeForce GT 1030 for $110 seems about the cheap GPU at my local Micro Center that has better scores than the Integrated Intel 530 HD graphics.
 

GertieGTI

Ready to race!
Location
CA
Spinning things around a bit. I'm just going to put that $110 I would otherwise spend on a GPU to see if it fixes my problem and just get a new mobo and CPU. Thinking of going with an AMD Ryzen 5 5600G and an X570 board. The two can be had for about $470. The 5600G has pretty much exactly the same graphics performance of a GeForce GT 1030. Looks like I can sell the i5-6600k and z170n board I have now for about $200. Same DDR4 RAM I have now can be used and same with the AIO. So basically $160 to upgrade and triple the amount of threads I have now and go from PCIe 3.0 to 4.0 NVME speeds. Crossing my fingers this works.
 

IanCH

Autocross Champion
Location
MA
Car(s)
'20 GTI
Do you do a lot of data transfer intensive tasks? Probably don't even need x570 if you don't.

Overall the new strategy seems solid and you will get a much more capable overall system for it.
 

GertieGTI

Ready to race!
Location
CA
No I really don't have high data transfer tasks. You think I'm better off with a B550 board? The cheapest B550 mobo looks like the ASRock B550M for $128. Where as a Gigabyte X570 I is $210. If I go with the B550 I could be all in for $366. Add to that a $110 value in graphics ability and the $200 I could sell my old parts for and we are looking at $56 invested. Sweet.
 

IanCH

Autocross Champion
Location
MA
Car(s)
'20 GTI
Yeah go b550, I went from pci3 to pci 4 on a Samsung 980 pro and didn't see any functional differences
 

sterkrazzy

Autocross Champion
Location
United States
Car(s)
2018 R
I ordered a LG C1 last night. My current tv is 7 years old and that was back when you could still buy tv's that weren't 'smart'. It's just a basic 1080p 55" tv. There's nothing wrong with it, but like everything else the new tech looks so much better. I don't think people were really using tv's plugged into PC's 7 years ago. Now the tv's have 120hz, compatible with g-sync and freesync, and low latency. I end up using my tv as a 2nd monitor way more than it gets used with the cable box, so I'll end up taking advantage of all that. Be interesting to see how my gpu handles 3840x2160 on one monitor and 3440x1440 on the other.
 
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