Multiple issues could they be related?

[Stealthparade]

Hi everyone!



Hopefully you guys can help me out with this problem I've been chasing on my MKV for quite some time. I've run some VCDS tests, logs and replaced parts that I thought could have been the culprits but I don't want to continue throwing parts at the car (I'll get more into this later). I've scoured the forums and found some similar situations and followed the guidance given to no avail.



Here's some info on the car:

-2008 MKV GTI FSI engine code: BPY (No current CEL)

-125k miles

-Timing was replaced at 115k. Injector seals and valve cleaning was done simultaneously.

-All coolant temp sensors have been replaced.

-AMR Performance Stage 2+

-Torque Solutions trans & engine mounts

-CTS Turbo downpipe

-SPM 3" Catback

-Lightweight crank pulley

-Updated DV

-Turbo outlet pipe with turbo muffler delete

-Forge boost pipes

-Throttle body pipe with noise pipe delete

-CTS Turbo air intake

-IE HPFP



There are multiple issues I have with the car however some may be related so I wanted to list all of them:



Issue 1: Rough idle when the car is hot or cold.

Issue 2: Low vacuum at idle. Normally it hovers around -13.6 and sometimes spiking to -20.

Issue 3: When coming off throttle above 4k RPM, the car will almost always violently buck.

Issue 4: About a half a cup of oil found in turbo muffler delete pipe when I went in and replaced the o-ring on the turbo.

Issue 5: Not hitting peak boost - should be between 21-23 PSI and it's hitting maybe 20 on a good day (Read on a P3 gauge).



Here's what I've done to try to remedy the issues:

-Corrected any vacuum leaks and smoke tested a few times to verify the leaks were fixed. Side note - anybody else's MKV's hate being smoke tested? Mine smokes like crazy when I drive it after I run a test.

-I replaced the catch can with the stock PCV valve but no change.

-Swapped out my warped air intake with a new CTS Turbo air intake but again, no change.

-Replaced the MAF sensor, no change.

-Removed DV spacer, no change.

-Replaced LP relief valve solenoid (the one on top of the HPFP).

-Replaced o-ring between the turbo muffler and turbo.

-Checked rail pressure and duty cycle for LPFP via VCDS. All checked out okay.

-Changed the vacuum pump on the driver's side of the motor.



After replacing the o-ring between the turbo muffler delete and replacing the LP relief valve solenoid, the car drives much smoother but the idle and other issues are still present.



I'd like to run more VCDS tests and logs but I'm just not too sure where to start.



Any ideas/suggestions would be appreciated!

 

[ROH ECHT]

I would make sure it is all sealed to begin with. Low vacuum usually means a leak.
You can use VCDS to check/test for un-metered air (any leaks between the MAF and inlet ports, or within the crankcase);

Test the N80 as well...it is simple to do. I made a vid:

You may then try throttle and runner flap tests and adaptations with VCDS. Curious if the idle revs increase when the vacuum decreases from 20 to 13 inHg.

 

[Stealthparade]

I would make sure it is all sealed to begin with. Low vacuum usually means a leak.
You can use VCDS to check/test for un-metered air (any leaks between the MAF and inlet ports, or within the crankcase);

Test the N80 as well...it is simple to do. I made a vid:

Hey thank you for the reply! I will check those out tomorrow evening and report back. Side not do you think that would cause the bucking issue or do you think that would be a seperate issue?

 

[ROH ECHT]

Not sure what "that" refers to. The N80? Possibly could cause the idle issue and reduced vacuum if leaking badly; if the N80 remains open and there's a leak in the EVAP system. I would just see if the N80 shuts or not when vacuum is applied to the manifold side of the N80. You may find it doesn't seal, you go ahead and replace it, and it doesn't fix the issue.

The VCDS runner flap adaptation should show you if the flaps operate correctly. http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/2.0l_TFSI_(AXX/BGB/BPJ/BPY/BWA)#Intake_Manifold_Runner

But again...I would make sure it is all sealed so to eliminate and confirm whether it has leaks or not. The STFT test in the video, done properly, should reveal whether it leaks or not.

 

[Stealthparade]

Not sure what "that" refers to. The N80? Possibly could cause the idle issue and reduced vacuum if leaking badly; if the N80 remains open and there's a leak in the EVAP system. I would just see if the N80 shuts or not when vacuum is applied to the manifold side of the N80. You may find it doesn't seal, you go ahead and replace it, and it doesn't fix the issue.

The VCDS runner flap adaptation should show you if the flaps operate correctly. http://wiki.ross-tech.com/wiki/index.php/2.0l_TFSI_(AXX/BGB/BPJ/BPY/BWA)#Intake_Manifold_Runner

But again...I would make sure it is all sealed so to eliminate and confirm whether it has leaks or not. The STFT test in the video, done properly, should reveal whether it leaks or not.

Thank you again for the helpful reply! I tried a runner flap adaptation this morning the first time it didn't work then pulled a code p3137. So I cleared it and retried and it did not pull the code again and said it went through. But didn't help anything as far as idle or bucking. As for what I said in my previous reply I was talking about the runner flaps my fault for not explaining that better. When I get home from work I will check 032 033 and I'll see if I have one of those hand pumps to check the n80.

 

[ROH ECHT]

I wouldn't yet dismiss the runner flap. It seems it does have issues either placing the flaps where they should be or the position sensor reads the position incorrectly. Not consistently, but sporadically.

You may want to contact a VW dealer, give them your VIN, and ask if there is a TSB or open campaign on it. Others with the runner flap code P3137, describe a shaking in low rpms when they have just that code.

From VCDS page for P3137;
Check TSB 01-08-12 or 2018402 (NAR) North American Region vehicles only.
Additional information may be found by searching RVU 24M2 / O3
But there is also this: "Check Engine Control Module Software Version, if necessary perform Update." ...which makes me question its tune. Is AMR a typo/error for APR?

 

[Stealthparade]

I wouldn't yet dismiss the runner flap. It seems it does have issues either placing the flaps where they should be or the position sensor reads the position incorrectly. Not consistently, but sporadically.

You may want to contact a VW dealer, give them your VIN, and ask if there is a TSB or open campaign on it. Others with the runner flap code P3137, describe a shaking in low rpms when they have just that code.

From VCDS page for P3137;
Check TSB 01-08-12 or 2018402 (NAR) North American Region vehicles only.
Additional information may be found by searching RVU 24M2 / O3
But there is also this: "Check Engine Control Module Software Version, if necessary perform Update." ...which makes me question its tune. Is AMR a typo/error for APR?

Hmmm ok understood I will look into that as well. Should I log the runner flaps somehow as well and post it here? As for the tune it is AMR Performance local to me I have been going to them for years and they've always been great. It is a custom stage 2 hpfp map. I could reach out to them as well but I should probably eliminate all other factors first.

 

[ROH ECHT]

I would contact the tuner. There's a slight chance they may have been seeing this with other customers with the same tune...and have already made a correction to their tune. Now or later...just something else to eliminate.

I cannot recall a MB for runner-flaps...only for the throttle angle in the TB.

There is one post on the Ross-tech forum of the same thing happening when having similar symptoms. They have the same symptoms, seemingly, and they tried the runner-flap adaptation and got the failed test with the same code. They didn't conclude the post with a fix...but perhaps you can post on the thread and get a response. When you manually move the runner flap lever (intake manifold-right)...does it return on its own.

 

[Stealthparade]

I would contact the tuner. There's a slight chance they may have been seeing this with other customers with the same tune...and have already made a correction to their tune. Now or later...just something else to eliminate.

I cannot recall a MB for runner-flaps...only for the throttle angle in the TB.

There is one post on the Ross-tech forum of the same thing happening when having similar symptoms. They have the same symptoms, seemingly, and they tried the runner-flap adaptation and got the failed test with the same code. They didn't conclude the post with a fix...but perhaps you can post on the thread and get a response. When you manually move the runner flap lever (intake manifold-right)...does it return on its own.

Huh fair point I will contact AMR and let them know what I've got going on and see what the say. The weather has been shitty today in my area so I was not able to test the N80 valve I will try for tomorrow. I took a log of 3rd gear WOT to see if you could find anything funny going on with boost or fuel pressure. I also logged the runner flap adaptation this time because I figured maybe something would come up in there, it didn't through a code and successfully finished but it stopped at 60%? 1ran two more logs for the short term and long term fuel trims the second one did not save and that one was after I cleared the codes to reset the long term fuel trim. I can rerun that log if you need to see that too. As for the recall on the runner flap motor I was checking and I saw a tsb for it so I'm going to go there this weekend and talk to the service guy will my GF's gti is getting some recall work done. Logs are attached. Thanks again!

 

[Stealthparade]

I would contact the tuner. There's a slight chance they may have been seeing this with other customers with the same tune...and have already made a correction to their tune. Now or later...just something else to eliminate.

I cannot recall a MB for runner-flaps...only for the throttle angle in the TB.

There is one post on the Ross-tech forum of the same thing happening when having similar symptoms. They have the same symptoms, seemingly, and they tried the runner-flap adaptation and got the failed test with the same code. They didn't conclude the post with a fix...but perhaps you can post on the thread and get a response. When you manually move the runner flap lever (intake manifold-right)...does it return on its own.

So this morning I had a bit of time and decent weather. I checked the n80 valve it does exactly what yours does in the video you took im assuming that indicates it's no good. Also I did discover a slight crack in the brake booster hose so I had the spulen silicone kit kicking around and changed that out. Odd thing is it almost seems to be running worse. I went back and checked the hose clamps and wiggled all the hoses and it didn't stutter any more then normal and vacuum was jumping from -13.4 to -20. I tried spraying some throttle cleaner around hose ends and clamps and nothing consistently made it sputter anymore then normal. Any ideas?

 

[ROH ECHT]

Right, not good, vacuum should not bleed off when applied.
I have no new suspicions. I suspect it's a runner flap issue or it may have more leaks. It may require a thorough leak testing with a smoke machine at some point.

 

[Stealthparade]

Right, not good, vacuum should not bleed off when applied.
I have no new suspicions. I suspect it's a runner flap issue or it may have more leaks. It may require a thorough leak testing with a smoke machine at some point.

I have done multiple leak tests at this point to no avail. No smoke coming from anywhere. I will likely do a more thorough check tonight of any line visible. I tried moving the runner flaps by hand and they seemed to make full motion and return on its own. I will go ahead and get a new n80 valve tonight. I just want my car back to its smooth and strong running days

 

[ROH ECHT]

Yeah, I understand. You may just need to wait until its problem stops peaking at you and begins to stare constantly. LOL, to mean; reveals itself more clearly.

About all you can now check with VCDS is the timing in MB 091 and 093. Just to be sure cam timing by the cam timing bits aren't throwing its timing off. Can be off from the tensioner, cam adjuster unit, or the chain. But these often cause lower power before coding.

 

[Stealthparade]

Yeah, I understand. You may just need to wait until its problem stops peaking at you and begins to stare constantly. LOL, to mean; reveals itself more clearly.

About all you can now check with VCDS is the timing in MB 091 and 093. Just to be sure cam timing by the cam timing bits aren't throwing its timing off. Can be off from the tensioner, cam adjuster unit, or the chain. But these often cause lower power before coding.

Hahaha yeah I've been hoping it would give me some more feedback on the issue but it's been over 6 months and it does not want to throw me a code! Should I just check at idle or under load too? Did you have a chance to look over those logs I posted by the way? Just curious if you thought everything looked alright.

 

[ROH ECHT]

Check the MB data at idle and full operating temp.